Cody,
I talked to SB agents, and they all assume that security cameras are in the house somewhere. This is why, they tell their clients to be quiet and talk after the showing. I know that if you are on video in a public venue, you have to sign a disclaimer according to California law, or be warned like at the entrance of a market that you are on video. Richard Weeks wrote about an agent having sex and caught on camera recently. And the theft of prescription drugs continues, one of our clients had to report the theft of medication during a brokers' open to the board of realtors in town...
In the disclosures, the security system is disclosed only as being wholly owned or leased. A
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
S. Leanne Paynter ☼ Br...
Davie, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Thank you for commenting with all of this useful supplemental info Ron and Alexandra Seigel. It is a great idea to advise clients to remain quiet during a viewing. Wouldn't want to compromise a negotiation position.
As for the crimes, I found far too many stories to list. I had to pick a few that represented different issues to give a bit of a survey of what can go on. The prescription drug theft is far too common. So many kind-hearted people never consider the fact that their medication might be sought out and stolen when they try to sell their property.
Cody, I don't take any chances when I am showing a house, we never know if we are being recorded.
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Great strategy Sybil Campbell. Important to take necessary precautions to fulfill your fiduciary duties to your clients to the best of your abilities.
Hi Cody Carmen ,
You never know and another buyer beware situation. Upon entering a home..one must assume you could be on camera!
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Exactly Dorie Dillard! I don't blame the seller, just plan accordingly.
Great Blog and interesting information Cody Carmen. I've been aware of cameras for a matter of months (since I'm a newbie), and I think it is a reasonable assumption that there could be cameras when you are showing or previewing a home. I have not been made aware of any used by past clients in our age-restriced niche/community, so I am more aware of the possibility out of our area. I think it's a safety precaution for the seller/homeowner!
Roy Kelley
Gaithersburg, MD
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Allie Angeloni exactly, there are legitimate concerns to be had by sellers. I don't disagree with the decision to keep an eye on their property, so people need to be prepared.
Good info Cody Carmen , even before the home security trend I always kept in mind that someone was watching... and he can send you to a very hot place!
Valerie Boldt
Mid Florida, FL
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Roy Kelley
Gaithersburg, MD
S. Leanne Paynter ☼ Br...
Davie, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm with that mindset I'm sure being on your best behavior in another person's home has never been too difficult!
Definitely a controversial topic. My thinking is that "confidential communication" is something that sometimes takes place while showing a property simply because buyers occasionally like to discuss such things as what the maximum is they'd offer on the property, even though they'd start by offering a lower amount. I usually advise buyers I work with to not discuss much other than likes/dislikes while we're inside a home. They sometimes forget (or don't give it much importance).
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Roy Kelley
Gaithersburg, MD
S. Leanne Paynter ☼ Broward County, FL the vague definition of "confidential communication" should definitely lead people to operate on the safe side. Inside someone else's home it is unlikely that business discussions would be considered safe.
I would have camera up in my house if I had it on the market. It's so easy to do, and I think it's an extra precaution that sellers can take.
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Roy Kelley
Gaithersburg, MD
Debbie Laity exactly, why not take a fairly cheap precaution if many people will be coming through the home.
Hi Cody- I can remember looking at a home and my agent said there were cameras in the home. She warned me to watch what I said. That was about 15 years ago and now I assume that every home I go into has a camera.
BARB KELLEY
Cypress, TX
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Kathy Streib that is a very good idea. Many buyers don't care what is overheard, but serious buyers and professionals working in a home have a vested interest in discretion.
This is an important topic. When you are visiting homes of others, you should assume that video cameras are there.
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Absolutely agree Roy Kelley. One of those things that is easy to overlook or forget for buyers, but no excuse for professionals to not be aware!
It is a good idea to advice clients not to discuss the offer when in the house.
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Gita Bantwal exactly. I'm very happy to hear that most people are in agreement or had already considered this.
Thank you Cody Carmen
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Kathy Streib thank you so much!
Cody
Good read here on a complex issue that is becomming more and more prevelant (from the standpoint of security systems). It pays to simply be cautious and assume there is some system in place and keep the comments to a minimum until out of range. I imagine there were will be more cases tested in court, here in CA and elsewhere.
Jeff
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Jeff Dowler agreed on all points. And unfortunately, since the law is vague, most of us in CA would likely benefit from a court case to establish a more definitive policy. I don't like hoping for a case, I would prefer our legislators write clear law. But as that rarely happens...
A good rule should be to be on your best behavior while walking though a listing. I would also never discuss anything sensitive about any potential offer to avoid tipping my hand by giving the buyer such info as how much I loved a listing or how high I would actually go with an offer...
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Jason Potrzeba exactly. Many buyers are already tipping their hand when they become visibly excited by the property. No need to give the seller any more ammunition in their negotiations.
This is becoming more and more popular in my area. I recently showed a house to a buyer and the listing agent had asked that we remove our shoes prior to entering.
Well....I forgot and showed the house with our shoes on. Afterwards, I had not even left the neighborhood yet, before the listing agent was on the phone with me reprimanding me for not taking our shoes off.
That showing was deifinately "Live" and being monitored from somewhere.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Oh wow John Ferrin, that isn't a story I've heard yet. Well, at least you know some of these people are on top of their end of things!
It is the world we live in now. I always expect cameras to be rolling. I tell buyers to assume the cameras are rolling! Is it an invasion of privacy? I do not know.
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Gary L. Waters, Broker Owner, Waters Realty of Brevard, LLC really good point there. At the end of the day does it matter if it is an invasion of privacy? Indignation won't change the practice, we just have to assume the cameras are rolling.
Cody I always assume there are cameras as do our clients. It just makes good sense to consider the possibility. I've never had any weird stuff go on with clients in homes and I don't ever expect too. Invasion of privacy - heck -there are cameras everywhere these days!! I guess if one was doing not good stuff they'd be more concerned than folks like moi!
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Anna Banana Kruchten it's true, if you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about! Hopefully none of your clients ever get you in any hot water via association!
I always assume the cameras are rolling and warn my Buyers. They seem to love the intrige. Yes, I had it proven once. The Homeowner was next door watching us, my Buyer wanted to negotiate greatly and obtain a "deal". She met us at the front door as we were leaving and sharply relayed her opinion of his remarks and told him she had a much higher opinion of her home (beautiful) and her negotiations would reflect it.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Pat Braithwaite not every day I get to hear a story like that! Did your client end up putting an offer in there?
This is so true. I was being recorded and filmed in a house. The buyer and I discussed certain things such as that the house did not appear to be well maintained. My broker got a call complaining about it! The seller probably should have taken it to heart and tried better maintenance.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Barbara S. Duncan were you representing the buyer?
Cody
The surveillance camera is one thing and the homeowners have a right the camera in their home and to video the people in their home. Recording the the conversations of the people in the home is a difference matter and that may not be illegal.
Good luck and success.
Lou Ludwig
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Lou Ludwig I'm not sure on the audio recording laws where you live. In California the owner is probably going to get away with it.
Cody
Great post on a current ongoing question . . . . Congratulations on earning a gold star feature for your post.
Good luck and success.
Lou Ludwig
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Thank you Lou Ludwig!
As an appraiser who specializies in high end properties on the south Fork of Long Island I always expect cameras to be installed and on. I actually had one client call me after a property observation and complement me on how thorough I was...
I have no issues with it as I feel that it also protects me from being accused of something..
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Anthony Vosilla your point on cameras protecting you is not one I had thought to write about or heard from a commenter yet! That is a very positive attitude, which makes sense since you seem to do your job well.
My general state of mind is that I am being recorded in all that I say or do with the exception of a dressing room or bathroom. The fact is, we are. Being in a home in no different in my mind. I do not assume privacy.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Minot, ND
Kathleen Daniels exactly, unless one is in a bathroom or dressing room there is no reasonable expectation of privacy
We have shown homes where MLS Realtor remarks state that cameras are recording in the home. Period.
It pays to always assume they are in every home. You never know.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Sarah, John Rummage agreed, no point taking risks. Also, how do you like working in Nashville? I went to college at Vanderbilt and have a great deal of love for that city.
Great post and timing! I have sellers right now that have 8 kids and have both audio and cameras in almost every room. They have a live feed and know exactly what the showing agent and buyers are doing and saying. I don't like it, but I know it's here to stay. Always talk and act like someone is watching and listening because they probably are!
Annette Thor
Westport, CT
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Barb Kelley exactly, it is here to stay. Does not matter if an agent doesn't like it, someone else would be happy to have that listing.
Great points. I had some weird things happen in a personal showing of my own home last week. Made me sort of wish I'd put in a camera. However, your points about recording - never even thought about that. I will caution my buyers about that particular subject as well!
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Annette Thor
Westport, CT
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Cara Marcelle Mancuso thank you! And I would definitely recommend cautioning your buyers to make sure you have the best footing for negotiations.
I staged a home recently where surveillance cameras were right in the entry foyer; the seller said they liked to hear what potential buyers said about the house. It had been listed with two different Realtors and the sellers wondered what the "real" feedback was, since no offers were forthcoming. While I understand their wanting to know, I suggested they place them somewhere else if they truly wanted feedback .. the cameras were the first thing you saw when you walked in the front door. I noticed that they later moved them, and the house had a pending sale after staging .... so the story had a happy ending.
On the other hand, I dislike having cameras on when I'm staging a house, because we have to very careful what we say -- we don't want to offend our clients!!
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Maureen Bray Portland OR Home Stager ~ Room Solutions Staging I can imagine it would be easy to accidentally offend someone during the staging process!
When I am in someone else's domain...home or business...I assume I (we) am (are) on camera and being recorded for both video and audio. By making that assumption...I always stay above board and keep secrets secret and comments commendable...
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Mike McCann - Nebraska Farm Land Broker I like how you chose the words "someone else's domain". To me, that is enough justification for the cameras, particuarly in business. If I was at a friend's house for social purposes and found out I had been recorded I might feel a bit odd about it, but if I'm working for someone it is up to them how they want to handle their business.
People hire you because they think you are a good fit. You do want to be treated as a professional. The real difficult sellers to less extend buyer I tell them I am doing my job and need to be respected.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Sam Shueh so would you request that cameras be turned off?
Cody, Very interesting post. I never thought of the possibility of homeowners placing some hidden cameras, but it could be a reality nowadays. I believe it is reasonable if they want to know what strangers are doing while previewing their home. I enjoy reading your post. Thank you for sharing.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Mayra Espinosa - Realtor thank you for your kind words! I agree, cameras are just a reality of doing business now, and it is reasonable when strangers are coming into someone's home. There are too many tales of misconduct to fault a seller for taking precautions.
Virtuous people are IMO usually fearless and not concerned about video or audio surveilance of their activities. However, asking clients if video and audio surveillances are being employed to protect their property is essential and could be used to close the transaction.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Kimo Jarrett I agree. If an agent is chosen to list a property it is because they are trusted to protect their client's interests. I think that agent should be aware of the negotiating tools on the table.
One should always be on their best behavior cameras or not! We don't get a lot of this up here but it is becoming a possibility! Owners do have a right to protect their property! Really Good Post!
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Thank you Debra Leisek! And I agree. If someone has a problem with cameras, what are they up to?
This is been a big topic of discussion at risk management meetings at both State and Local levels (REALTOR Boards). Leases are being amended to address this in regard to tenants where the parties agree that the Landlord cannot use recording devices on the premises.
We have told our Associates that they need to advise buyers that they have no expectation of privacy while touring a home listed for sale.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Jim Joeriman surveillance in tenancy and employment situations definitely gets more complicated. I have heard of landlords having tenants sign contracts allowing video, but not audio, recording in the common spaces of a unit (kitchen, living room, etc.). No way I would sign that lease.
Cody, when showing properties, I always advise my clients to keep their conversations about the home outside, I assume there are cameras and we're being recorded. Couple of years ago, a Realtor was caught on camera having sex in the master bedroom in Orlando area, not a wise decision.
We have cameras outside and inside of our home, my assumption is everyone else does as well.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Beth Atalay lots of stories of people making poor decisions like that Orlando Realtor...
But safe assumptions to make. If you can predict a problem, cut it off.
I have shown numerous homes where it was very obvious we were being watched. I now assume we are always being watched and tell my buyer clients to assume the same. I tell them to withhold all comments regarding the house until we are back in the car as if they love the home and want to place an offer I don't want to harm our negotiations by letting the sellers know how much they want the house.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Terry McCarley exactly, no need to complicate negotiations
There are loose cannons on every ship ! Being a Broker will take years off your life !
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Michael J. Perry I'm sure brokers just love dealing with agents who complain about cameras (or worse) ![]()
I've heard that the measure of person's character is what they would do if they knew they would never get caught. Sellers have the right to record people in their homes and some people will find that their true character is revealed.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Wayne and Jean Marie Zuhl an unfortunate lesson to have to learn the hard way. Cameras have unconvered some despicable behavior in the past, hopefully the cameras help prevent that.
I certainly can't blame the homeowner for wanting extra security in their home. It's not always the agent that is being scrutinized. I think they're more concerned of the potential viewers whom come in during Open House when it's not always easy to keep track of everybody whom may be in the house at any one moment. Great post, and definitely something to think about in this day and age.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Mike Bjork exactly. When medication and valuable go missing, people want answers.
It's best to assume someone is always watching and listening. It's certainly possible!
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Sharon Tara exactly, it's possible so we should assume it is happening. Some buyers don't really care, all the power to them. But agents should at least give a warning.
I hope you are enjoying a most productive month. I appreciate your comments on my blogs.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
I appreciate your support as well Roy Kelley. August has been great so far, I hope you can say the same!
Very informative post Cody. I always allow for the fact that I may be on film or recording. And I advise my buyers as well.
Evelyn Johnston
Elkhart, IN
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Monte Wall that is a great policy. I have been very pleased to see that most everyone who has stopped by to comment advises there clients (or will be shortly) about the potential to be seen or heard.
Yes, I have shown properties that have camera's on, and we assumed were recording. It is a bit uncomfortable because they cannot freely talk. But they understand the reasoning behind it. I have even had buyers write notes back and forth to get questions answered.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Evelyn Johnston exactly, uncomfortable but reasonable. Notes are a simple way to work around!
I always caution my buyers of the possibilty of being recorded. I had some sellers that watched every showing on their cell phones from down the street. They didn't have sound but timed the showings and the lingering and then immediately called me asking me to follow up. It was unnerving.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Debbie Reynolds that definitely sounds unnerving. I understand watching, but you would think they would trust you to give the pertinent details of the showing in a timely manner.
Cody Carmen - wow! Interesting to learn that it is legal to do so.
Question - should listing agent disclose about it or not?
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Praful Thakkar I think that choice is typically up to the seller. But if the buyers or their agent ask? Tough spot there. Perhaps a prepared answer that neither confirms nor denies should be used at all listings in general.
I've cautioned buyers for years to not say much when they are viewing a home, just in case there is video or audio recording going on. And a quick reminder before we go in the door is a good idea. You never know!
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Mary Ann Daniell Licensed Texas Realtor that is the best policy, glad to see you've been thinking about this for years!
These days we should assume we're being "watched" or recorded. No matter where or when, Cody Carmen. More often than not, it's true. It's the new reality with everyone having access to recording devices or security systems via affordable, easily installed security systems and cell phones.
Gene
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mortgage Originator - FHA/VA/Conv/Jumbo/Portfolio/Refi good point about how much easier the systems are now. Many no longer require a phone line and are much cheaper than they were even five or ten years ago.
It is important for all to be aware of the possibility that cameras may be present in a home.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Seems like most agree with you Sharon Parisi, which is great!
Great job! I just added this to my "To Do" list. One should always conduct themselves act as though they were being watched, but this is worth mentioning to customers as well. When showing property, it is often difficult to be the eyes and ears every moment, especislly if the party separates for a moment to do a relock at a room.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Mary Stewart great points. When people get separated they might be less likely to remember the cameras.
I have had sellers with surveillance equipment. The best rule is to act as though there was always a camera and mic on you when inside a property either with your listing or with a buyer.
Cameras exist and listening devices exist.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Margaret Rome, Baltimore Maryland exactly. When the technology exists and is fairly commonly used, it is irresponsible to assume it won't happen to you or your clients. I'm happy to see most everyone here has agreed so far!
Years ago a seller of mine secretly recorded what agents and clients said during showings. I freaked out when he told me, but apparently it's not illegal to do that. That client and I soon parted ways.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Hannah Williams
Philadelphia, PA
Cody Carmen The thought never ever entered my mind ... It is a little creepy
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Hannah Williams I think it can definitely feel that way! I think it is a great reason for sellers and their agents to communicate openly
Hi Cody - Great topic. We have always assumed that we could be recorded, so we save the important parts of our conversation for when we're back in the car.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Dick Greenberg that is a great plan. Can't be too careful.
Cody, I missed your post the first time around and wanted to stop by and thank you for the interesting discussion. (I saw it on Debbie Reynolds post). It's a helpful reminder to always watch your P&Qs.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Pat Starnes I'm glad you got here somehow! I think you have the right attitude about it. Agents need to be careful, but the vst majority also don't really have anything to worry about.
Hi Cody, great topic. We always try to be mindful of eavesdropping while touring someone's home.
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Thanks Michael Dagner , it's important and an easy mindset to get into.
Simple solution: all of our occupied properties have a sign at the entry stating that the property is under 24-hour audio/video surveillance. We are under surveillance pretty much everywhere else we go, why the surprise that the same would be true of a house that the 'public' has access to?
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Jim Smith I completely agree, there is no cause for surprise. No reason to assumethat people won't pursue surveillance on their property for any number of reasons.
Cody, in DC, many homes have outdoor surveillance cameras set up, and I'm guessing that a lot of them also have them indoors - maybe the owners want to know what the dog is doing when they are away. Usually, they are pretty obvious. But in most areas, it's seller beware if there is audio recording.
I once had a buyer spot the camera and start to mug for the seller. It got funny.
Lou Ludwig
Boca Raton, FL
S. Leanne Paynter ☼ Br...
Davie, FL
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Carpinteria, CA
Cody Carmen
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Patricia Kennedy I would have loved to see that. A
Good to hear that some people take the cameras lightly and don't take too much offense for being recorded! Thank you for the info on the D.C. area as well.