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Yes, Liberals do want to control our oil! errrrr, something like that.

By
Mortgage and Lending with Texana Bank

Is that so wrong? On another thread, I asked a very simple question... actually, two if you want to get technical. I know how some of you guys love your semantic arguments.

 

First, I stated that in the mortgage/real estate biz, we are 'capped' on profits... I can't make more than 5% on a given loan. Boy, was I taken to task for THAT slip up. See, my misuse of the word 'profit' was too confusing for some. Call it what you want, I am CAPPED on what I can make on any given loan. Period. Very simple to understand. My question was- if I am capped, why can't we cap the oil industry as well? They affect EVERY SINGLE other industry, they affect our quality of life, they affect EVERYTHING. Why are they free to do as they please?

 

Secondly, people were discussing drilling in Alaska, and other places in the US and offshore. I asked a very simple question here as well- When we let the oil companies drill ALL OVER our country, are they not going to sell that oil for the going market rate, and probably to other countries??? The answer, although no one wants to admit it, is that since oil will not be regulated by our government, these private companies will have free reign to sell to the highest bidder. What good does that do us, the consumer? NO GOOD AT ALL.

 

I say get people signed up for our new public works project- drilling for our own oil. We will not be beholden to any foreign country. We will not be beholden to a for-profit industry that cares for one thing only- PROFIT. We will create thousands of good-paying jobs- if not hundreds of thousands! Let's get our greatest natural resource to work FOR us. Not against us. And not for the Chinese. US.

 

Is that so wrong???????

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Adam Brett
The Adam and Eric Group - Fullerton, CA
The Adam and Eric Group, Fullerton's Finest

Oil is a global commodity - we cannot privitize the industry - just like gold.

May 29, 2008 05:54 AM

Known "proven" world oil reserves are estimated to be 140 years worth based upon average 2007 consumption. The key word is "proven" which  basically, means currently producing or technically capable of currently producing without  a loss of money.

It excludes fields that have no production records, it excludes oil shale and coal tar fields that were not economically viable.

Each year, as technology improves, as the cost of oil is driven upwards, more locations are added to the world reserves.

As we move more and more to alternative forms of energy (remember, once upon a time, we had a lot of hydro plants, not as many any more and have a hard time building new ones) and move from oil to other energy sources, we will be adding years to the reserves (without adding product).

Oil companies drill in leased holdings, those leases can easily be structured so that the stuff coming out of the ground is for U.S. consumption. Why would you want a bunch of people who have no clue how to explore, drill or refine oil taking over the operation?

As for your cap, who caps it? Does the federal government cap it? Does the state government? Does you broker cap it? I really want to know. I do know  that neither the state nor federal government caps my commission? Nor does my broker.

Comments

I believe it's because of RESPA that I am capped at 5%-so, federal. And rightfully so! They don't tell me that I can only do 50 deals a year- but they DO tell me how much I can make on each one. I think that is fair, for me and the consumer.

 

140 years worth at today's consumption? Just curious, how many years did they think we'd have in 1950? I'd venture to guess 500+ years. Can't use today's average use, you know that.

 

Also- so let's structure the leases that way! Simon was arguing the other way on your thread- and that's what really bothers me. We can't be manipulated to the point where we give up our oil to these companies, just to have them turn around and sell it on the open market. Not to sound like a whiner, but that is not exactly fair.

We should go to hydro, wind and solar as much as possible. Having a wide array of available energy sources benefits us. Didn't Ted Kennedy vote down the wind plant off the coast of Nantucket??? People need to ask themselves if that view is worth billions of dollars and thousands of lives. Whether you would admit to it or not Mike, the only reason we are in the Middle East is their oil. 'Our national security interests' are the billions of barrels of oil over there. Now THAT'S an expensive energy source! Wind plants, solar plants, hydro-electric- all of it needs to be done regardless of the up front costs, and regardless of the view it creates! I personally love the sight of wind turbines... put some in my backyard :)

Comments
Peter Nikic
Broad & Bailey Realty LLC - Valhalla, NY

"Why are they free to do as they please?" ahh . . . cause this is a free country.

Jennifer you keep missing the reason why this country is what it is. It's the capitalism, the "Profit" motive that made it as powerful as it is.

I recently heard that the oil companies profits are 4% of total oil sales. I know that in percentage it seems like a small number but in dollars it is astronomical. I also heard that the gov't takes 15% for taxes, that's nearly 4 times more than the oil companies make.

Makes me think that the gov't is intentionally allowing prices to soar so that they could make more. I don't know exactly why, but that's how it seems. maybe so they could even give back a stimulus check to excite people. maybe it's because the need is so great and they can't raise taxes at this time for fear of hurting the country further so they get it this way. maybe you know, what do you think?

 

May 29, 2008 06:46 AM
Eric Kodner
Madeline Island Realty - La Pointe, WI
CRS, Madeline Island Realty, LaPointe, WI 54850 -

Past "estimates" of oil reserves and estimates of oil availability by so-called experts have failed to take many factors into account, including:

  • The growth of demand for gasoline and diesel by third-world countries such as India
  • The expansion of automobile use worldwide as the global economy raised living standards in the Far East and elsewhere
  • Interruption of supply resulting from war, political unrest and civil war in some producing nations

Sorry, but I don't buy the claim of 140 years at 2007 levels.  The words "proven" and "estimate" seem to be in direct conflict with one another.

May 29, 2008 06:50 AM
James Monastero
Texana Bank - Fuquay Varina, NC
The Matchmaker

Peter- excellent points about the taxes- true, cannot argue with that ONE BIT. BUT- 4% (120 billion dollars) means that total oil sales were 3 trillion dollars.. is that true? If so, conservation would be nice... If only to keep more of that money in OUR pockets instead of the governments, the oil companies, or in thin air...

 

We live in a free country where we can't paint our homes with lead-based products, or run into a theater screaming 'FIRE!!!' or talk on a cell phone while driving. OUR freedoms are restricted ALL THE DAMN TIME. So, really, for good reasons, our health, safety and quality of life are taken into consideration in many circumstances. In an industry that controls every aspect of our lives, you'd think we'd have more of a say. I think we can all agree on the idea that we, as citizens and therefore OWNERS of this resource, we should have a say.

 

 

May 29, 2008 07:02 AM

Jennifer - I believe RESPA caps what it calls closing at 8%, this includes commissions, etc. However, it still does not cap your profit. At 5% you can make $5000 off of a $100,000.00 loan, or $25,000 of of a $500,000.00 loan. But what was your profit, what were your costs for each loan? Should we cap your PROFIT at 5%?

Yes, Ted Kennedy, as well as that icon of environmentalism, Robert Kennedy Jr are against the wind farm in their back yard. And you will be hard pressed to get  a new hydro plant approved.

Peter - oil company profits are a little higher than 4%, but not much. Federal tax is about 19 cents a gallon, state taxes are from about 20 cents a gallon to 67 cents (California, which I believe is the highest). And, in California, and maybe some other states, I believe a sales tax is tacked on on top of that, so, you are being taxed on the 86 cents a gallon you are already paying in taxes. Kind of a tax tax. So, the percentage varies, but, it is still significant. Their rates are fixed, not a percentage of cost. (That doesn't include any corporate taxes which are over and above that, these are taxes that we, the consumers, directly pay).

Madeline - reserves of anything are computed at current (and estimated) demand rates. They definitely do take into account India, China, et al, including expansion of automobile usages, rising living standards and such. This year, if there is a difference in demand (up or down) the estimate will be modified reflecting those changes. Estimating of reserves is a sophisticated process that is much more in depth than the short summary I presented.

Disruption, or interruption of supply, does not affect the quantities of reserves, only the ability to get at them (which is a big part of what is driving up costs right now).

 

Comments
James Monastero
Texana Bank - Fuquay Varina, NC
The Matchmaker

"First, I stated that in the mortgage/real estate biz, we are 'capped' on profits... I can't make more than 5% on a given loan. Boy, was I taken to task for THAT slip up. See, my misuse of the word 'profit' was too confusing for some. Call it what you want, I am CAPPED on what I can make on any given loan. Period. Very simple to understand. My question was- if I am capped, why can't we cap the oil industry as well? They affect EVERY SINGLE other industry, they affect our quality of life, they affect EVERYTHING. Why are they free to do as they please?"

 

Mike- like Simon, you are losing the point. FORGET I EVEN SAID PROFIT. Take that out of the equation. On each transaction (unit) I have a legally allowable MAXIMUM. Period. Forget the costs and fees- pretend that it's all just one thing... I am capped at 5%. Do you get it now? Am I speaking Greek or something??????

May 29, 2008 07:26 AM
Mike Saunders
Retired - Athens, GA

Jennifer - you are not speaking greek, however, you are comparing apples to watermelons (even farther apart than apples and oranges). A gallon is a gallon is a gallon. No matter how many gallons are pumped. They are fixed units. Are you suggesting a cap per gallon? What is that cap based upon? The cost of the gallon? The cost to get that gallon to the pump? How are you going to determine profit (oh, you don't care about profit, you just want a percentage cap).

Oh, by the way, the mortgage industry is not capped on profits. They can make as much profit as they want, just need to write more loans. Oh wait, they did and now we have a credit crisis.

Take an economics class or thirty. Then, when you understand what you are talking about, you might start making some sense.

By the way, caps in any field are discencentives to performance.

May 29, 2008 09:08 AM
Eric Kodner
Madeline Island Realty - La Pointe, WI
CRS, Madeline Island Realty, LaPointe, WI 54850 -

Mike, I used to serve on the Board of Directors of an oil & gas firm in Texas.  Thanks, but I'm fully aware of the "sophisticated process" by which reserves are estimated.

I have friends in the industry who freely admit among themselves that reserve estimates are just that..estimates.  A friend whose wife was an exec at Halliburton loves to joke about the accuracy of the oil industry's published reserve estimates.

Eric Kodner

Madeline Island Realty

 

May 29, 2008 09:19 AM
James Monastero
Texana Bank - Fuquay Varina, NC
The Matchmaker

Yes, a cap per gallon- wow, we've had a breakthrough!!! Use the base cost (no taxes) and cap profit as a percentage of that. Not too sure why there is a problem there...

Again, you bring up the fact that 'Oh, by the way, the mortgage industry is not capped on profits. They can make as much profit as they want, just need to write more loans. Oh wait, they did and now we have a credit crisis.'- What did I say to the contrary? Again, read what I wrote, because that is EXACTLY IT. EACH UNIT has a cap. Get it now? We can write as many loans (units) as we want- but on each one, we have a legal maximum.

 

And would you expect gasoline to perform better if you didn't cap the oil companies profits? I am confused as to why you would excuse the pillaging of Americans based on 'caps in any field are discencentives to performance'- THERE IS NOTHING TO PERFORM. We are talking about a commodity. It's not like I'm saying Heart Surgeons should make 50k a year... we'd get some really awful heart surgeons... It is gasoline, diesel fuel, home heating oil- What performance are you talking about???

May 29, 2008 09:21 AM
Tim Fennell
The Legends of Real Estate, REALTORS® - Jacksonville, FL
Jacksonville Real Estate

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (how silly of me... of course someone will correct me - LOL).  I read 'somewhere' that the oil companies make about 8-9 cents per gallon in profit.  So, even if you capped their profit at 1 cent per gallon it simply isn't going to make a dent in what I am spending at the pumps.

The problem seems to be somewhere else.

May 29, 2008 09:51 AM
Jennifer Kirby
Kirby Fine Homes - Minneapolis, MN
The Luxury Agent

For once I agree with Terry...we need to stop focusing our attention on oil and start putting our money into alternatives. The sooner we as a  nation become free of the strong hold oil has on us, the better off we will be.  It would be nice to sit back and watch other countries argue over gas prices, while we sit on the future alternative and wait for them to come to us for the technology.

May 29, 2008 10:51 AM
Mike Saunders
Retired - Athens, GA

Terry - I thought you were leaving! CNN and their analysts only air "facts" that support what they want to say. Often, their facts are only other analysts conjecture. I did not see this special, so, I have no idea what their source information was.

I do remember analysts saying, in the 70's, that we would be out of oil by now (and others saying we would be in an ice age). Maybe that's why the temperature here only got to 73 yesterday.

Regardless of whether it is 140 years or 40 years, we have the opportunity to use existing technology to limit cost increase in energy while we are perfecting alternate energy sources and making them economically viable. (All without taking draconian measures that would assure the failure of the economy).

There is a saying I used to tell my bosses Piss Poor Planning (PPP or Pcubed) on Your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. Unfortunately, that is not true with the group of PPP bozo's that have put us in this position and refuse to acknowledge their significant role. There is now an emergency on our part and some of you can only think of ways to make it worse.

May 30, 2008 12:46 AM

Terry- the way I view it is this: The Earth has been around for billions of years. Many changes have taken place. Over the last 200 years, we've 'industrialized', and we've always grown by leaps and bounds (people-wise). This is the FIRST TIME in history we have made it to this point (jee, that kinda goes without saying:) ) So, who is to say WE'VE done it right??? We haven't DONE IT before. So, I'd rather err on the side of caution. Whether we are causing climate change or not, it's coming. Whether we are causing the ice caps to melt or not, they are melting. Why make it a political issue? Why even try saying 'it's not happening'? We have NO IDEA if we'll be here in 50 years- that's the truth. It's not like we can go back to 10,000 BC and say 'well, during this time period of enormous growth, we ran out of food. Let's make sure that doesn't happen again'- we have nothing to compare TODAY to, we have no mistakes to learn from. I don't understand how some people can be so sure something ISN'T happening- it very well could be. Why be on the 'ignorance is bliss' side of the issue???

 

Mike- would this be the same PPP that got us to where we are in Iraq? :)

Comments

Terry- the way I view it is this: The Earth has been around for billions of years. Many changes have taken place. Over the last 200 years, we've 'industrialized', and we've always grown by leaps and bounds (people-wise). This is the FIRST TIME in history we have made it to this point (jee, that kinda goes without saying:) ) So, who is to say WE'VE done it right??? We haven't DONE IT before. So, I'd rather err on the side of caution. Whether we are causing climate change or not, it's coming. Whether we are causing the ice caps to melt or not, they are melting. Why make it a political issue? Why even try saying 'it's not happening'? We have NO IDEA if we'll be here in 50 years- that's the truth. It's not like we can go back to 10,000 BC and say 'well, during this time period of enormous growth, we ran out of food. Let's make sure that doesn't happen again'- we have nothing to compare TODAY to, we have no mistakes to learn from. I don't understand how some people can be so sure something ISN'T happening- it very well could be. Why be on the 'ignorance is bliss' side of the issue???

 

Mike- would this be the same PPP that got us to where we are in Iraq? :)

Comments
Tim Fennell
The Legends of Real Estate, REALTORS® - Jacksonville, FL
Jacksonville Real Estate

There is a nice analysis of the breakdown on the price of gas (per dollar) at this site.

One of the things that really gets my goat is how the conservatives have made the price of gas go up ever since the Democrats took control of congress.  Those people have a lot of nerve keeping the price down while they were in control and now that the Dems are in charge, the conservatives have just let the price go through the roof. 

It's an outrage, I tell you!

May 30, 2008 03:19 AM
Tim Fennell
The Legends of Real Estate, REALTORS® - Jacksonville, FL
Jacksonville Real Estate

And another thing... why, in America, should anyone make a profit on something that is so vital to our lives as oil?  The next thing you know, evil corporations are going to be allowed to make a profit on clothing, shelter, food and medicine too.

This insanity must end now!  We need these things to live.  It's just not right for anyone to make a profit off them.  Fortunately, we have wise people like Maxine Waters looking out for us.  She and her friends will 'take over' all these evil corporations so that we can all live happily ever after.

May 30, 2008 03:26 AM
Eric Kodner
Madeline Island Realty - La Pointe, WI
CRS, Madeline Island Realty, LaPointe, WI 54850 -

Ahh, the tired, worn-out myth that "the Dems are in charge".

The Democrats don't have the numbers to override a presidential veto.  But that will likely change in November.

May 30, 2008 06:20 AM
Tony and Suzanne Marriott, Associate Brokers
Serving the Greater Phoenix and Scottsdale Metropolitan Area - Scottsdale, AZ
Coldwell Banker Realty

Yet another unique perspective reaffirming what I already thought I knew about liberals!

Jul 16, 2010 08:56 AM