NAR SHould Ban Short Sales

By
Real Estate Agent with Morris Williams Realty

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Update.....Due to the responce on this post,  have contacted our local board and told them I will be forwarding  these replys on for their consideration. Comments with solutions would be appreciated..Thanks

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What if we just quit....Yes, If we just QUIT..Just QUIT doing short sales...

For one thing, we would get rid of an entire category of People Complaining about how this bank or that lender is not responding, not meeting deadlines, won't call back, is wasting our collective time and our customers time..For what??

 

What would happen??? The banks would turn on the charm and set up programs to either move the houses in short sales or run them into full foreclosures and let them be actually sold REO

 

I am personally mad at the time I have wasted, and the unbelivable amount of time, money, and total effort that Realtors as a whole spend on marketing bank properties. For nothing. The statistics continue to get WORSE, not better.  My point , again, with all due respect, is that we go into a short sale situation with a less than 20% chance of getting the job done. We work to hard, and the banks give us less than zero respect.

 

We as Realtors are doing the job of marketing for the banks, why should they change. They know how to market, look at all the ads on TV and Radio, non stop. They don't have to market the forclosure properties when we as Realtors are perfoming slave labor with a ever widening gap of actual short sale closings to non closings....What do you get for that time.  Just Frustration over 80% of the time..What about your client...They get the same, and you stand the possibility of losing a valued buyer to another agent with a property ready to be sold now!

 

My premise, and it is only mine, is to tell the banks to handle their own mess, and when the properties are ready for sale, then get out of the way. I have dealt with REO sales, they are short and sweet, the banks want them closed in days, not weeks.  Banks are as a whole treating our profession with absolute disrespect, and we are letting them get away with it by treating them like spoiled children that won't agree to follow any set of rules.

 To the right is where the short sales should go...Lets just give the handle a good flush and wait for the banks to clean up thier mess. ...Go, ahead, hit the handle, you know you want to!!

Screw the banks. Let them foreclose, and clear the properties for actual sale. We owe it to ourselves and our customers to not be involved in chasing homes that are not yet actually for sale. I wish NAR would put out a directive instructing all agents to quit marketing short sales, and then I believe we would see a very different reaction from the banks. Presently they ae NOT treating us with respect, they are not dealing with us like we are equal Proffessionals that deserve such respect.

 

Again, I say tell them to go market thier own properties that are in foreclosure, and the over 6,000 new homes going into foreclosure EVERY DAY....Me, and many like me, will wait patiently for them to release the cleared properties on the other end...My time is too valuable to play these games, we as Realtors need to stand up and just say NO.

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Rainer
83,069
Bonner Thomason
Keller Williams Realty - Kernersville, NC
CRS, ABR, GRI, e-Pro

I agree - By submitting to this environment of a perceive value in short sales we as Realtors are only feeding the pigeons. Just Say No !!

Bonner

Jun 17, 2008 07:45 AM #194
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

Eric....I think we all got started in this to do good things..the issue is can we actually accomplish good things at a pace that produces income for our efforts. If so, continue, and if not, then stop

Secondly, I say again fro those who don't have an hour to read thru all the posts, lack of standards at the MLS level is hurting us all, and allowing many Realtors to do bait and switch tactics on listing homes that cannot be sold at the list price.

I have had some fun with these listings, and demanded to purchase the homes for the list price...This practice is undermining the "regular " homes on the market playing by all the rules...Therefore increasing thier days on market and further reducing thier market vlaue as a direct result

Jun 17, 2008 09:07 AM #195
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

Bonner...If you say so...But feeding the pigeons is a good way to pass the time, short sales over all are a waste of time!!!

Jun 17, 2008 09:08 AM #196
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

OK...its been a record setting post...this is the #200 comment, and if I had returned replys on every five it would have been mich more

Jun 17, 2008 09:09 AM #197
Rainmaker
1,638,877
Lyn Sims
RE/MAX Suburban - Schaumburg, IL
Schaumburg Real Estate

I'm 201.  I totally agree with you Mike & mentioned the blog subject today in an office meeting about all the time wasted, etc. that maybe we should just forget totally about the short sale market. Well I was made to feel like a leper.  I'm sick & tired of being sick & tired on this stuff.  We can't help everybody in the world, we are 'real estate enablers' so to speak.  Just last week I wrote an offer on another house where the agent or bank doesn't know what they are doing. At least in a foreclosure I won't & don't have to put up with this! 

Jun 17, 2008 09:25 AM #198
Rainer
69,100
Sandra Carlisle (Ayers)
Berkshire Hathaway California Properties - Newport Beach, CA
Real Estate Marketing & Sales

This was a great and timely post!    I don't think NAR has any business deciding how homeowners solve their financial crisis.  Short Sales can actually help sellers recover financially and credit-wise at a faster rate than a foreclosure on their report.  It's a pain, but it's about the client and not our bottom line.

If you don't want to take what the bank is willing to offer, then don't.  Sell something else.  I think the solution is in agents choosing to do these sales or not, negotiating their own compensation .  If you know the bank is going to screw you, have the buyers sign a buyer broker agreement and let them come up with the rest of your fee or have the guts to tell the bank pay or no deal.  The buyers are getting a great discount on the property and will be saving money looking at the big picture.

The banks are coming around and if enough buyers request money back to pay their agents fees, based on buyer broker agreements, they will eventually pay what we ask for. 

That's my attempt at a solution...

 

Jun 17, 2008 10:57 AM #199
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

Sandra, thanks for commenting...there is no easy way to fix this, I wrote this post just to bring awareness..I believe I have done this, with over 3500 views and over 200 comments...  Take care

Jun 18, 2008 12:57 AM #200
Anonymous
Jane Brunet, Dominion Real Estate Partners LLC, Scottsdale, AZ

Hi Mike,

Yes, you have brought much needed awareness to this issue. Thank you.  Perhaps, if you started a new post asking for SOLUTIONS ONLY (short & concise commentary only please) we could get a concensus of the possible actions NAR should be directing their efforts towards: Broker & Agent Education, Enforcement of Article 11 of our Standards of Practice, Spokesperson to the Banks for response times, etc.   As our regulatory agency, they should be spearheading this issue on our behalf.  As a note:  By enforcing Article 11, we will instill confidence in buyer's agents to put contracts on short sale properties because they will be assured to some extent, that the agent is qualified. In the meantime, all other agents would be required to get certification.  Through regulation and education we can continue to provide professional representation to distressed sellers while enlarging the agent base for future 'specialists' in this area.

Maybe, we could also send the final concensus to NAR as a petition calling for action from agents across the nation.

I believe this issue has long-reaching consequences; particularly, from the 'commission first' perception of our industry that many of the comments appears to contibute to.

 

Jun 19, 2008 12:20 AM #201
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

Jane..very well said..it would be nice to get something done

Jun 19, 2008 03:21 PM #202
Anonymous
John

Mike- While short sales are difficult, only a handful of Realtors have a stanglehold on the Foreclosed  (REO) market in our area, so if you want a piece of this miserable market you have to decide if you want to play in the game before it goes to foreclosure which leaves some of us with the option of working with a bank (which I absolutely agree - gives us zero respect) or sit on the sidelines til the market gets better. Tough choice when there are bills to pay.

Jun 24, 2008 02:11 AM #203
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

John...I would rather work at Mc DOnalds for 3 months than go thru the grief, and nearly 80% guarentee that it will not close///on the Upside, at McDonalds, we get free fries, and 200 bucks a week

Jun 24, 2008 02:16 AM #204
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

Well, looks like this turkey is done... I will have a smart person do the math on this post, but it appears on the surface that its about 85% in agreement

Jun 26, 2008 01:20 PM #205
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

UPdate....there will be many short sales getting approval soon...look for non short sale values to drop like a rock for the next year intil all these are sorted out

Oct 08, 2008 01:16 PM #206
Anonymous
Zhen

Short sale listings is no different than any other listings.  It is our fiduciary responsibility to help the sellers move the property.  What I don't like are those who claims to be the short sale specialists and most of them are not even licensed realtors.  They claim to not charge the sellers a fee however, the fees do come out of the bank's pocket which in turn is charged to the sellers o 1099C or adds to their deficiency note or unsecured personal note.  Do your job as a Realtor and help those who are in financial trouble. 

Nov 01, 2008 03:39 AM #207
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

Hey Zhen

It is not our fudiciary responcibilty to do anything but support our family. When you have spent as long as I have helping those in financial trouble all the while wondering when these things will actually pay my bills..

I think you are short sighted, and obviously have not had dozens of files on your desk that will not sell. At the end of the week, when the gas tank needs to be filled again, and the cupboards are getting bare, and your spouse is asking when do we do something that pays our bills........Oh yeah... Maybe I should keep on doing this crap and lose my house too....

I take it you are all heart and have a job that pays your bills...I owe my family a living and thats it...working for free has its limits and I am done

 

 

 

 

Nov 04, 2008 11:00 AM #208
Rainer
36,966
Donna Oehler
Realty Executives Platinum - Palmdale, CA
A.V. Foreclosure Specialist

I know that short sales are a pain - but I have been successful at negotiated and closing short sale properties. YES - it is easier to bring a buyer in after the foreclosure to purchase the home. But for the short sales that do get accepted many times the home is in much better condition because the sellers actually tried to do the right thing.

But Mike - if you are a real estate agent YOUR fudiciary responsibility is with your buyer or seller NOT your own pocket. I guess maybe you missed that day in real estate school?  If you can not handle short sales ... then don't take the listing and don't show the homes.  There is no law that says you need to show short sale listings.   

I have not had every single short sale accepted - but I have been more successful at getting them closed then not.  NAR does not need to ban short sales ... they need to ban agents that have no clue what they are doing.

Nov 04, 2008 11:22 AM #209
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

Donna

First.did you even read the post

I walked away from over 70 short sales and listings when I wrote this post...I will never be the one doing short sale listings and working with buyers on shorts either. Wasting time is a conflict with my fudiciary responcibilities and my relationships with my buyers.

With the amount of available inventory that can be bid on and purchased now, why would I get my buyers involved with sales that may or may not happen. I know who my clients are, and I am very aware of what fudiciary means as well.

Your anger towards me is misplaced..You don't know me or what I do for a living. I am the single agent for a few clients who buy distressed properties. As a single agent, I am very aware of the fudiciary concept.

As for my own pocket, when I worked endless hours for months on end to not have banks accepting offers on all the listings that I had, and was constantly on the phone, meetings, and frustration from dealing with litterally dozens of sellers that were living on the edge of losing their homes, I had to walk away. I handed all my listings over to my broker and went on to establish my sanity again.  I had cash deals on the table and could not get the deals done.

I made a concious decision to work with the cash investors and we bought deals that we ready and able to close now. Since then I have moved into a great position with an investor/development firm where we actually buy what is actually for sale.   Its a great life and I will never go back to that frustration. If thats where you find you happiness,  then good for you.

As for what is good for my own pocket....missing that day in school...Are YOU SERIOUS ??? I am feeling very satisfied with my abilty to make a living and pay my bills...I am still in the business, and very extremely busy with cash investors. Had I stayed on with all the crap that was not moving, I would be forced to do what over a million Realtors had to do...quit and go get a job...

 

PS.......look at when this was written......this was already history when it was written

 

Nov 04, 2008 11:55 AM #210
Rainer
36,966
Donna Oehler
Realty Executives Platinum - Palmdale, CA
A.V. Foreclosure Specialist

Mike-
My anger was more directed at the fiduciary comment you made - I guess I am sensitive to that because we have a lot of agents in our area that take short sales and stroke along the seller and buyer.  I get very frustrated with this. 

I will be the first to say "to hell with the banks" because they are not easy to deal with - and yes - on one occasion I have told the sellers to just let the bank foreclosure and wait until cash for keys is offered.

Short sales are a pain. The banks should be more cooperative - yet they seem to have their head up their rears in many cases, but I do not think a ban of short sales is the answer.  Getting the banks with the program is a better solution.

 

 

Nov 04, 2008 12:40 PM #211
Rainer
105,415
Mike Norvell Sr
Morris Williams Realty - Leesburg, FL
Norvell Consulting Group

I stand by my comments...I know litterally dozens of good Realtors who are selling cars, running resturants, doing all kinds of things because they stayed on a path that put thier own family in jepardy.. Short sales should pay a flat fee up front and a commission at the end if it closes before foreclosure...

Funny thing..banks insist that REOs be closed within weeks after contract...so these are the same institutions that cant make a decision on short sales, but can close NOW on REOs....If we, the Realtors quit doing the job for the banks on doing the unpaid marketing, overhead, and daily expenses we all face, then maybe another way to handle these situations would come to the top. But since the Realtors are scrambling to do all of the above for free, then the banks will certainly NEVER change how they do this business..

Remember, REOs have to be sold for cash, and closed immediately...think about it

Nov 04, 2008 12:54 PM #212
Anonymous
Jim

Hello Everyone,

Has anyone taken a short sale course?  Are brokers out there knowledgeable when it comes to short sales.  The problem are not short sales.  The problem are with agents that have no clue of what they are doing.  A short sale is a totally different type of transaction. 

Many agents out there are not competent/educated to handle a short sale.  I know many, not if more then 90 percent of agents out there that do not know what the mortgage forgiveness act is or form 982 is.  If you don't know what these two simple things are then you are not competent to do a short sale.  In fact as an agent it is part of your fiduciary duty that you know this.  I honestly see many agents out there that do not know the process and wing it.  Then they B**** and complain and point the finger at the bank.  Just like anything guys you need to be competent just as you were to treat this as a traditional transaction.  Remember when you first decided to become a Realtor.  It was overwhelming and there was a process for a traditional transaction.  Heck,  it is a learning curve when you delt with your first REO.  Now REO is here to stay.  Ladies and Gentleman!  Short sales will be here for awhile too!

Reasons why short sales do not close!

Agents

  1. Do not know what the proper documents you need to complete a short sale package
  2. Are not educated with the short sale process to set real expectations
  3. Do not follow the MLS board guidelines or do not know what the rules are
  4. Do not update and disclose to all parties the status and be honest about it
  5. Set expectations to the buyer that the chance of this going through is very low because if the listing agent doesn't know the process the whole deal can fall apart

You guys want to fix the problem?  Start educating yourself and get involved to get our economy back on its feet.  We all sold many homes when the market was good.  Make the best of it when it is bad!

What we feed our mind today is how we will improve our finances tomorrow.  I am also an agent and understand everyones frustartion.  I truly do believe that we all can make a difference. 

Stop reading and go make some money!

Sep 14, 2009 01:46 PM #213
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Mike Norvell Sr

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