With all due respect to Linda Scanlan and her marketing blog entitled "You spend
WHAT on Marketing???", I don't mind saying that I feel a little perplexed
(actually a bit slighted) by her deleting a comment of mine this
morning. That's the first time I've ever had that happen
here…and I guess I’m a bit shocked!! No email notification...no
request to edit. Just a click of a button and :::poof::: DELETED!
I'm trying to be understanding and give her every benefit of the doubt. I like
Linda’s blogs…and I found her marketing post to be of EXTRA
interest given what I do for a living. Perhaps she thought I was violating AR's
Terms of Service and pitching my company on her blog. I wasn't (you'll see in a minute what I DID say).
I thought that what I wrote this morning
was valid…and that some would find the facts interesting. The figures
I used were gleaned from being in business for seven years as one of the
country's top real estate marketing firms. Obviously, I can only speak for our
company, as it's the only company whose information I have access to (which is
why the following statements refer to our company alone). But I certainly
wasn't trying to sell anyone on using FlyersToYou.
I guess I should also add that we are primarily a print marketing company (custom
business cards, brochures, flyers, presentation folders, signs, magazine
layouts, presentation binders, etc.), with web design, blog header design,
Realtor.com banners and online property websites coming in as our second
largest portion of our business.
The gist of Linda’s post…along with most of the comments, were very
unfavorable toward print advertising. Most said they had virtually eliminated
all print advertising from their marketing strategies. By the way, I do NOT get
offended by stuff like that. I have my opinions…and others have theirs.
But ALL of us have unique experiences that we bring to the table…which is
what led me to write the following on her blog this morning:
We have customers who spend
$5,000-10,000 per year with us.
Their average income? $250,000 - $600,000+
We also have customers who spend $400.00/yr. with us.
Their average income? $25,000 - $40,000
Obviously, the figures above are representative only
of what agents spend with our company. I’m certain they spend advertising
dollars elsewhere too. But I think Linda thought I was being insulting, and
telling people if they didn’t spend more with OUR company,
then they couldn’t possibly be successful. That wasn’t what I was saying at all, although I can
see how it potentially could have been misconstrued that way.
The numbers above are simply the facts (with our company anyway).
What was the point of it?
Linda's post talks about there being many free and/or inexpensive ways of
marketing oneself that can be effective. I
do not disagree with that at all. Her post also talks about
getting out to meet people and talk with them
face-to-face (I'm a HUGE fan of that kind of stuff too!)
It's a bit limiting by nature, as you can't possibly meet 10,000 people as
easily as sending 10,000 postcards. But it IS
effective.
She talks about the various ways the internet can be effective without spending
an arm and a leg. I, too, am a big believer in the internet, so we don't
disagree there either. Heck…we almost don’t disagree with each other
at all!!!
However, in each
agent's quest to dominate the internet, I see more and more money being spent
on SEO (Search Engine Optimization)...and I
still get 528,000 search results when I type in “Fort Worth Real
Estate” at Google. Don’t get mad at this Linda, but your name
wasn’t on the top 5 pages. That’s NOT an insult, it’s only an observation. That means that, other than the Top 10 or 20, or
30, or 40, or 50, there are a lot of
agents who are not winning the internet race, no matter how free or cheap it is.
In my opinion, the internet is not (and cannot be) the answer-all if you're
looking for a total and complete marketing strategy. And I think it’s
unfair to tons of agents to imply they can succeed in this business using that
route exclusively. Heck,
check with your hosting company. ALL of us (yes, we host websites too) give you
access to traffic reports. You can see how many unique visitors your site has
had…what pages they looked at, how long they were at your site…and
even what kind of browser they used. I warn you…the information is often
quite disappointing.
But
I think this is where I possibly hit a nerve with Linda this morning…and
why my post was deleted.
I went on to state that I've never seen an agent spend less than
$250.00 per month building their real estate business...and go on to earn much
more than $30,000 per year. If some
of you have...wonderful!! My hats off to you!! But it is not the norm.
And if all you want to make is $30,000/yr., then my whole point probably won't
mean much.
We’re in a unique position. With what our company does, we're fortunate to have
daily conversations with some of the highest paid Realtors in the business.
They're incredibly wonderful people...and we love to talk about marketing! Most
of them approach marketing and promotion like a "real" business. In
other words, they set aside a certain amount every month to promote and
advertise their real estate businesses the same way ANY other type of business
would. And they’re just as interested as everyone else in finding
what works and what doesn’t.
They too have tried all the knick-knack marketing early in their careers…and
in the process, they've learned to eliminate some
things. They do not buy 10,000 pens
with their names imprinted on them and expect to get deals. But they WILL pay for monthly
postcard mailings of 10,000...and generate REAL results.
They're on the internet too...with really great sites...so they will not argue
the value of having an online presence. But they're not spending hours a day
seeking out the least expensive ways to earn $1,000,000 per year in income.
If anyone thinks I'm being condescending, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I assure you
I’m not!!!
We did Gary Woltal's
new AR blog header for $39.00 and get to watch as he carves an absolutely
wonderful niche for himself. I love that! We’ve done
Nestor and Katerina’s blog header, Jason
Crouch’s blog header, and about 25 others so far. If we can share in their
blogging success on a free community website...well, I feel honored to be
a small part of that!!! I also love helping a new agent on a limited
budget find an effective means of building his/her real estate business. And
hopefully they’re happy with having the professional look and feel of our
marketing…without it breaking the bank.
But as their success grows, my recommendation will be that they reinvest more (not
less) of their earnings back into their business until they've reached whatever
heights they dream of!!! And it WILL take money. Maybe
not millions…but probably more than free.
And it will most definitely include print materials. Maybe
not your typical newspaper ads. Maybe not Homes and
Land Magazine ads. But something that their prospects can see, touch and
feel. Except they’ll be done wayyyyy
outside the box in terms of the message conveyed.
And they’ll work.
Especially now! Since the common goal of most agents seems to be in
figuring out a way to rank higher in the 528,000 search results, the “old
way of doing business” could be extremely effective right now!
Dave
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RE/MAX Realty 100 - Menomonee Falls, WI
Metro Milwaukee Real Estate
Can you do a nice blog header for me? Something classy like katerina's?
Email me...
Jul 21, 2008 03:48 PM
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices
David,
A very well though blog. There is no one golden key to success, and whoever claims they have found it on the Internet, they maybe a bit too optimistic. Take Microsoft. One would think that being a world famous software company could have the talent and the money to be the top everywhere. Well, type "software company" into the google search and you will not find Microsoft on the first page.
It should tell us something.
Jul 21, 2008 03:50 PM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Richard,
I totally understand the need to keep a blog "on-topic"...and I, too, have seen members go into a stager's blog (as an example)...and pitch their latest e-book on how to succeed at selling real estate! LOL....huh????? It's a home staging blog!!! They then provide links back to their site, etc. Those absolutely deserve to be deleted!! I also kinda hate when I look at the blog dashboard...and see an entire column of the same face. One person who has monopolized the entire blog screen with things like:
Want to be a Billeonaire? <--yes, it was actually spelled that way
Sucessful agents, call me now. <-- yes, successful was spelled wrong!
Etc.
Grrrrrr.....I always feel like telling them to get a life. I haven't yet...but am getting closer and closer. Thanks for your comment!
Erik,
Good for you!!! Reinvesting in your business (yourSELF) is absolutely necessary. But you're right, trying to figure out which option to choose from is just crazy!! Seminars, coaching, widgets, new technology, personal branding (my favorite of course), magnetic car signs, custom stationery, websites, video presentations, virtual tours...yadda yadda. It's impossible for an agent to keep up with all of their options.
And if someone has spent tons of money on refrigerator magnets (they don't work)....or notepads (only sometimes work)....or golf tees with their company logo on them (why would anyone do that anyway)....it's easy to become embittered over the whole idea of marketing. But you can't turn off to the idea....ever!
Coca-Cola tried doing that once. They felt their lead over Pepsi was so strong....and that their name recognition so powerful that they could ease up on their marketing expenditures. Guess what happened? In less than 6 months, Pepsi's market shared soared!!! That seems incredible to me...but it's true. The moment we disappear from the public eye...is the moment they've drawn the conclusion we're out of business.
Thank you for your comment!! If you ever want to talk about some marketing ideas...give me a call. I LOVE talking about that stuff!
Matt,
I'll email you either tonight...or tomorrow, ok??? I'd love to give you a hand with your blog header!
Jon,
I so totally agree!!! And I LOVE your example of Micosoft not even showing up on the first page of a search for "Software". What a crack up! Can you imagine?? Virtually no software will even WORK on our machines...if it wasn't for Microsoft's software to begin with! And they haven't figured out how to rank number 1 on search engines!!! But real estate agents throughout the country are bound and determined to figure it out.
My feeling is that you simply list your website on every single thing you put out there in the marketplace. Your business cards, your postcards, your flyers, etc. You'll wind up with more traffic to your site that way....rather than trying to rank higher than #528,000 in a Google search. I can't understand why more people don't just get that???
Someone may argue that they've already captured their market area and reign supreme on the internet search engines. I've even actually seen searches where it really DOES seem like every single result is for that particular agent. They are very self-assured...and slightly arrogant at their internet prowess and knowledge of SEO. And then you realize it's in a town with a total population of 2,612. There are three real estate offices...and a total of 24 agents. It loses a little in the translation I think.
I really appreciate your taking the time to read my post..and for commenting.
Dave
Jul 21, 2008 06:10 PM
Fathom Realty West Sound - Poulsbo, WA
Your Kitsap County WA Real Estate Broker
David: I checked out Linda's post, and didn't see where she had deleted your comment. William Johnson deleted one of your comments though. I think people may be slightly overwhelmed or intimidated when your comments comprise more content than their entire blog post! Keep up the conversation!
Jul 21, 2008 08:31 PM
Ocala, FL
Ocala, Horses, Western Wear, Horse Farms, Marketing
Hi Dave, enjoyed your post and the comments. Great details and certainly well presented.
Jul 21, 2008 08:42 PM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Rich,
Linda didn't delete ALL of my comments from her blog...only the one from yesterday morning. I believe it had to be for the reasons outlined above...and I understand where she was coming from. And yes...I definitely have a tendency to run at the mouth when leaving comments, don't I?? LOL!!
It's hard for me to limit myself to the typical "Great job, enjoyed your post."...especially if/when I think the blog is only telling half the story.
By the way, I LOVE the site you've built here...and can't believe I only found out about it two months ago. A site like this has been a long time coming. A place where everyone in the real estate industry (yep, all the way down to a flyer guy)...can come together to share ideas, experiences, discoveries and knowledge. Incredible!
Oh...by the way...on William's post; He and I have had a very lively banter going, both publicly and in email. When I brought up an example of Realtor compensation, William asked if I would mind editing it as it's not a Member's Only post (I hadn't realized that). So I went back and changed one of my comments. However, one of them was written without me first being logged in, so I had no way of editing or deleting that comment and asked him to do whatever he felt was appropriate. Deleting that comment was with my knowledge and completely understandable. It elaborated on the commission example...which might have been construed as price-fixing in a public arena.
Thank you for commenting...and for creating such a terrific site...AND for looking into this a bit! I really appreciate all of the above!
Susie,
In case I've never mentioned this before...I LOVE your comment signature! It's one of the easiest to spot, most recognizable signatures out there, and it helps me quickly find your comments (which I've always enjoyed reading!) Ideal branding! Thanks for stopping by here!! :)
Dave
Jul 22, 2008 01:56 AM
Independent Real Estate Broker - Los Angeles, CA
Real Estate Broker (562) 884-6196
Hey Dave---I thought that was what this site was about---promoting our business and helping each other out! I loved the banner you made for me! Don't let one blogger get the best of you!
See ya in the Rain!!!
Jul 25, 2008 03:40 PM
And the United States of America - Mesa, AZ
It's not a game, it's your life.
Dave, very good points and I especially liked the comparisons between income and money spent. Plus, you must know about marketing because I read that post and at times was at the end of my attention span, only to have you pull me back into it with your various colors and font sizes. ;)
Jul 25, 2008 08:29 PM
Above All Financial Services -Pennsylvania Mortgage Broker - Secane, PA
Suburban Philadelphia Mortgage Broker
Dave,
Didn't you know that on some people's blogs you are only supposed to make comments agreeing with them, telling them they are right, and saying "great job"??? I thought it was one of those unwritten AR rules but maybe those people should put a disclaimer on their blogs.
I didn't look at the post you are referring to (because you didn't put any links not even so we can see all the blog headers you did) but it sounds more like a case of deleting due to difference of opinion than deleting due to soliciation.
You still have to do my blog header too.
Michelle
Aug 02, 2008 11:04 AM
Above All Financial Services -Pennsylvania Mortgage Broker - Secane, PA
Suburban Philadelphia Mortgage Broker
well Dave here's your answer. looks like your stats were right. http://activerain.com/blogsview/620708/It-s-Now-Time
Aug 02, 2008 11:07 AM
Century 21 - Anaheim, CA
North Orange County Real Estate
Dave, I had to delete one comment today and that was yours as well. Your blatant accusations and off-based conclusions are uncalled for. Just kidding.
Really, I think you make some valid points here in this post. In regards to the statement where you had indicated that those who spent less on advertising don't receive high income is partially incorrect. If you look at top producers in the industry who gets most of their business from 100% referral leads, they hardly spent any money on marketing. Nothing is always black and white. The grey matter is where the controversy begins.
Aug 04, 2008 08:51 PM
SUNSTREET MORTGAGE, LLC (BK-0907366, NMLS 145171) - Tucson, AZ
Mike Jones NMLS 223495
Dave,
I'd like to see a post with several of your header designs all in one place. You do nice work. (Remember the honey/vinegar fable, though, when it comes to commentary.)
Mike in Tucson
Aug 04, 2008 09:08 PM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Jim,
LOL...I want to thank you for your very gracious reply to my comment on your blog. I was hoping that the answer to that scenario was as you later described it...but it wasn't readily apparent in your initial post. And by the way....I wouldn't have any problem at all with you deleting it. Honestly!
My problem with Linda deleting my post...is that my comment stayed on-topic...and gave a professional marketer's observation about a particular situation. However, it differed from her opinion and it was suddenly gone.
And this will sound harsh (and I really don't mean it to)...but I read Linda's farewell message to AR the other day, as she's decided to leave real estate. It's not the first time I've seen expert advice provided by those who are soon leaving the business.
And I guess here's where I'm a bit (maybe overly so??) opinionated.
(Mike...this is for you too.)
I've spent my entire life in real estate. Started as a Title Rep at age 20...then the mortgage business, then real estate sales prior to starting FlyersToYou. I'm 50 now...and have seen/done/listened to/practiced/tried/read/created etc. a TON of stuff. I've been to all the seminars...and spent wayyyyyyyy too much money myself in my quest for success.
I realize that doesn't necessarily make me an expert...but it certainly makes me opinionated! LOL!!!
Jim, back to your point about referral marketing. You have to bear in mind that if you take 20 listings this year...and all of them are from your sphere of influence and referrals...you're still going to need to market those homes. Your referral base should be able to expect nothing but the finest in marketing materials for the sale of their home. You should be using a professionally branded three-ring binder as your Real Estate listing presentation (you leave it with your sellers as it becomes the place for them to keep all of their transaction paperwork.) You may send out Just Listeds and Just Solds or put up a full-color for sale sign with your image on it...and you certainly want your web presence up to date and looking great. That doesn't even take into consideration your business cards...or development of a personal brand if you currently aren't using one. All of these things have costs involved.
So even when your referral base is responsible for the majority of your business....you might have to spend several thousand dollars with us in the next 12 months to represent them better than any of your competition EVER COULD!!!
So there! :)
Mike,
I do have a tendency to forget the honey/vinegar equation at times. But it's never done with malice or contempt. I just have a hard time watching seemingly endless "politically correct" comments that go something like this: "Great topic. Keep up the good work." Especially if the original poster may not be looking at all sides of a given situation. Fortunately, the majority of responses to my "Uh oh, Dave's on a roll again" comments...are extremely favorable, with only an occasional "You've gone too far" types of comments.
And yes...look for a blog by the end of the week regarding blog header designs. I was going to do that blog this afternoon...but ran out of day before getting to it. Here's a quick collage showing several of the ones we've done however. And thank you SO MUCH for the compliments. That means a lot to me!
Dave
Aug 04, 2008 09:57 PM
EXP Realty 414-525-0563 - Brookfield, WI
WI Real Estate Agents - Luxury - Divorce
I didn't read Linda' post...I don't delete comments with the exception of harrassment since I don't believe in giving either consumers or members a forum for their harranging....here is what I believe as a former ad/marketing/PR agency owner....and prior to that a media director for national and regional accounts....
There is no one medium that works as well as more than one....so that is the professional truth...
Aug 05, 2008 11:21 AM
Arizona Luxury & Lifestyle Living - Cave Creek, AZ
Arizona Homes For Sale
Hi David! I, for one, LOVE it when you come to the party. You always have great ideas!!! I just need to get my act together and start ordering the goods from you (I've actually been busy selling RE!?)
I will say, I am sure you intimidate the heck out of some when you show up because you articulate well and are NEVER at a loss for words. If I ever saw "Great job, enjoyed your post" I'd start looking for the body snatchers. In any event, don't stop with the opinions. You are a GREAT read and a fountain of ideas.
Aug 07, 2008 02:20 AM
Hurst Real Estate & Auction - Morristown, TN
David, great post. I agree with you that you have to invest in your marketing if you are going to be successful.
Aug 07, 2008 07:50 AM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Sally,
Can I PLEASE steal that saying??? Please, please, please??? :: smile :: Thank you for that insight!
Kathy,
LOL...you only love it when I come to the party cuz you're just as opinionated as I am!! Can you imagine the TWO of us at the same party??? Hold onto your hats everyone!! And LOL at bodysnatchers! They always come looking....but...(this should be no surprise)...
I usually talk them out of it. :P
Amy,
Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to read my epic rant!!! Kevin Wunderly, a customer and fellow AR'er, sent me the most interesting article this afternoon on exactly this kind of stuff. It mentions a number of very well known retailers who cut back on their marketing...and have since filed bankruptcy! YIKES!!
My favorite coffee house is doing the same thing (no, it's not Starbucks). It's a small independent coffeehouse whose business is...well...not as great as it could be. I know the economy is a factor...BUT...this shop keeps cutting back their hours further and further and further. They used to be open til 11 pm every night. They then changed that to 9....then 8...and now 7. They say there's not enough business to justify staying open any longer than that. So naturally...I ask what kind of marketing they're doing to promote business.
The answer? None.
Oh....except that they recently handed a stack of their business cards to one of their customers who sells Avon. For a couple of free iced coffees...she's agreed to staple their business card to 100 of her Avon catalogs...so that when she drops them off with her customers....they'll get one of the coffee shop's cards.
Not to sound overly condescending....but...um...ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????
That's the extent of their advertising budget....and their business shows it. Soon, they'll be closing at 4:00 in the afternoon....then 2:00.....then 11:00. They'll ultimately stay open only for the morning rush....say from 6:00 -9:00....before finally going out of business.
The saddest part is they're really nice people. A mom and dad bought it with their two grown sons, who have worked for the shop for several years....(and felt they could run it better than the previous owners). Mmmm-hmmm.
By the way...this is NOT in any way intended to sound harsh...but I was notified recently of Linda's last post here on AR. It was her farewell, as she's decided to leave real estate. This is also NOT an I told you so comment. It's just that EVERYONE in business...from Realtors to Coffee Houses...need to investigate marketing a little more before:
a.) presenting themselves as experts
b.) standing idly by and watching their businesses fail
Thanks to all for reading.
Dave
Aug 07, 2008 07:13 PM
Patriot Land Transfer, Inc. - Limerick, PA
"The Title Man" - Title Insurance - PA & NJ
Dave,
Excellent presentation...not to over simplify things, but you need to spend money to make money, and you need to spend more money to make more money...notice I didn't say the more you spend, the more you make...there is something called wisdom and diligence involved! At any rate...nice post! Thanks, Fran
Aug 11, 2008 10:44 AM
Huntsville Alabama Real Estate, (@ Homes Realty Group) - Huntsville, AL
Huntsville AL MLS
Dave, I agree with Jim completely. Seasoned agents that have a very high referral base have no need to spend as much on print advertising....As for deleting comments, I haven't had that problem yet. Hopefully, I won't have to either. BTW...LOVE your headers! You do a beautiful job:)
Aug 25, 2008 12:46 PM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Fran,
Thanks for the comments! You know...Coca-Cola did an experiment one year. They decided they didn't need to spend as much on advertising as they had been. I mean, after all...EVERYONE already knew who they were. They'd been spending a fortune....so they thought "Let's reduce our marketing expense a little".
Six months later, they kicked it all back up. Why?? Because Pepsi's market share increased DRAMATICALLY!!!! Yikes!!
I totally agree with you!
Russel,
All of that makes sense to me. :)
Elizabeth,
I, too, agree with Jim...(with one exception).
When you already have a high referral base...you don't need to spend as much on print advertising to BUILD your business. BUT...you definitely want to make sure that your referral base has the nicest property brochures (print)....a professional Listing Presentation/Real Estate 3-Ring Binder (print)....that you're sending Just Listeds to the neighborhood in an effort to gain exposure for the sale of their home (print).....etc. Print marketing should never be limited to the initial building of one's business. Whether it's simply maintaining contact with your sphere thru newsletters, postcards, etc...or having a custom full-color digitally printed sign to put in their yard when you DO list their home...there are going to be some ongoing (albeit possibly reduced) marketing costs that will likely include print.
Oh...and THANK YOU SO MUCH for the compliment on our headers!!! We love hearing that kind of stuff!!! I've noticed your header during my "travels" here on the Rain. The coffee cup with your name is brilliant!!! Hmmm...please forgive me for this...(here I go with my dumb opinions again!) The only thing I'd change on your header is the text. It's slightly "squished" together in order to make it all fit...(and there's a simple way to fix that!!!!) ::: smile :::
It'd hardly cost you a thing! Maybe we should talk. :P
Dave
Aug 25, 2008 11:24 PM
Comments(22)