I ran across this yesterday while doing a home inspection. It was the first time in a few years that I have seen "vermiculite" in an attic. Vermiculite is a substance that has been mined, predominately from Libby, Montanna and distributed by a company called "W.R. Grace". It was widely used for insulation, among many other uses starting in the 1940's and 50's. In 1991, the EPA issued health warnings about the substance, because it is believed that much of it mined from the Libby site contained asbestos, or asbestos dust. Many of the miners that worked there fell ill and/or died from the dust inhalation. There was (and still is) a large class action suit against the company, who filed bankruptcy because of it. ( I do not know the outcome or dispensation of the original law suit.) However, I did also happen to see an ad on TV 2 days ago, someone - I think a law firm- telling people who have vermiculite in their attics to contact them about the class action because they are owed money. I wish I had paid more attention to the ad, because now I can't seem to find any more info on it. If anyone has any more info on this, I would appreciate it if you let me know. The EPA advises people to "not disturb' the vermiculite so as not to stir up dust, and not store anything around it, or let children play near it. The problem is this house, and most other like it that have this in the attic, are very deficient in insulation value. If you are not supposed to disturb it, or remove it, then how do you ever upgrade the insulation? I hesitate to recommend adding insulation over a potentially hazardous substance. Does anyone have any suggestions? Have you had any experience with this? You are invited to Join the Home Inspector's Corner group , and see what home inspectors are blogging about. Home Inspector's Corner
Kevin,
I saw a commercial about this product a few days ago too, but can't recall the website info. Maybe if you Google "vermiculite," something will turn up.
Amy
Yes, Amy - I did, and got a lot of info, but nothing specifically about the new lawsuit, or the supposed money payout from a company that is supposed to be bankrupt.
Well, let's just keep our eyes open for that commercial again, huh? LOL
Amy
Kevin, in our area there are companies trained and approved to remove the stuff----expesive, but not too bad in terms of the total value of the home----just something that needs to be factored into the sale in my opinion. Nobody wants to spend money on clean-up of this stuff----but someone has to do it. I have seen numbers from 5-20,000 dollars for clean-up. I have seen people spend more on landscaping and driveways and swimming pools:) Cleaning it up will return the home to its proper value quicker than any of those things. I have seen stuff about the law suit as well. I will see if I can dig it up for you.
Kevin, also, no discussion about asbestos is going to be very complete without paying attention to Caoimhin Connell
Kevin,
If you rarely see it you are lucky. I see it fairly often in older houses and some people, even knowing the EPA stance, freak over it. Others do not seem to care. Charlie already told you how we deal with it.
Kevin, Thanks for the heads-up on vermiculite. I do see it from time-to-time here in houses in this area. How the heck are you to report this or are you?
Kevin, surprises me that they would recommend leaving it in the attic, not sure I would want it in my home.
The latest EPA statements, and I have talked to a lab about this, is that the asbestos is a "contaminant" therefore it might not be detected in a normal, and affordable, lab test. So the rule is...if it is vermiculite you should assume there is asbestos in it. I suppose that might not apply if you could find out for sure that it was produced after they knew about the problem. I only see it in older homes. We do have a lab nearby, that the state recommends. He suggests that several samples be taken from different areas. He can give you a good idea if it is contaminated or not, but will not make a blanket statement that it is clean. However, from what I understand, your cleanup if you remove it might be less restrictive if the lab can find no sign of asbestos. Complicated stuff. As for leaving it there, I guess they think the problem is not too serious as long as it is not shook up and made airborne.
Duane, I agree, I really have an issue with this, and I'm torn at the moment as to what course of action/inaction would be best.
Steve, From what I have been able to gather, ((and from you and Charles- thank you) it appears there may be more inherent danger in removing or disturbing it than to just "let it be". Still, if you leave it, there is always the possibility that someday, a child may come in contact with it (I remember how curious I was as a child). And if you decide to leave it, and maybe cover it up with more insulation (like fiberglass), then what does that do your liability, and disclosure statement?
I have heard of companies that say they can remove it, by vacuuming with a "hepa" filter, but can they really guarantee that some will not be missed? Or become airborne?
Should I be recommending a lab test?
Kevin, I can see where that would be a decision, but knowing you, you will make the right choice.
Raye,
I think vermiculite is now mined in some different places, other than Libby, Montanna. The Libby vermiculite is the only one that has any concern with this at this point. The Libby vermiculite is what was used in alll those attics 40-50 years ago. There are many other uses for vermiculite, including plant growth, as a base under swimming pools etc.
Duane, Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Kevin, go onto the TIJ website and search "vermiculite" and read everything you can find by Caoihmin Connell----it will clear a lot of your concerns up. I would try to help you more but I am rushing to get out of dodge:)
Kevin, I have been all through the TIJ site and can't find the article I was talking about. Here is another link that should help. Caoihmin replies in a couple of places in the comments.
Thanks Charles, I appreciate your efforts. :)
If you need help with SOC, (sending free cards) let me know or give me a call.
USA weekend paper, August 8-10, 2008 is running an ad regarding the W.R. Grace bankruptcy. Looks like I could file a claim against them. I was wondering if it is legit and the query to vermiculite got me to Kevin's blog. I do have fiberglass over the vermiculite The house was built in 1961. I also have asbestos ceilings.
Hello,
We are purchasing a home. built in 1958, it does have vermiculite in the attic. We were going to encapsulate and insulate over and put bords over insulation. We have been told by our mortgae company that the vermiculite must be removed or we will not get mortgage. Have u heard of this before.
Karen
Hello,
We are purchasing a home. built in 1958, it does have vermiculite in the attic. We were going to encapsulate and insulate over and put bords over insulation. We have been told by our mortgae company that the vermiculite must be removed or we will not get mortgage. Have u heard of this before.
Karen
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