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Zillow & Trulia ratings..... enough is enough

By
Mortgage and Lending with Apex Home Loans NMLS #369577

When Zillow hit the net with mortgage quotes I was all over it. Wow! A free source of leads where professional mortgage bankers can strut their goods and issue rate quotes based on market prices......   NOT - all I saw was quotes that could never be delivered upon by slimy mortgage people. They ratings were bogus as anyone could just rate themselves. I kept quoting for a few weeks. My loan proposals were very competitive with slim margins on every quote. The only phone calls I got from zillow were people who couldn't even qualify in the first place. And the bogus rate quotes just continue to amaze me in the fact these slick sales people are even still allowed to quote. Zillow has an awesome concept but without some serious policing I am no longer playing the game.

Trulia peaked my interest after my frustration with Zillow. What a smoking idea of offering up quality advice and hoping your answers get noticed in the form of sales opportunities. I have closed one deal from trulia and have had several selling opportunities, all from simply offering up high quality advice to questions posted on their site by consumers. Not to toot my own horn, but I do feel I supplied solid answers to the questions posted and received a lot of thumbs up and a few best answers. However, in the last few weeks I have noticed a few thumbs down. I don't get this. I responded to cut and dry questions and regardless of my responses being best answers or even a thumbs up, they certainly were not thumbs down quality. So now I assume Trulia is being poisoned by the same people that post bogus quotes on Zillow.

These are two outlets that are easy to navigate, completely free of charge to consumers and professionals and have one thing in common. Unpoliced, these sites are pushing the true professionals who have quality advice to offer up to consumers at no charge away. I am taking a break from trulia and Zillow and I am not certain I will return. I have had it. This industry as a whole carries a stigma about it and to allow quotes that can never be met in a hundred years and bogus ratings obviously handed out by competitors is complete BS and I refuse to participate.

Anyone else have similar stories? Let's hear them. I know Ziillow and Trulia people read Active Rain posts. let's get them to listen up loud on this one!

 

 

Posted by

 NMLS ID - 369577

MORTGAGE ADVICE - PROBLEM SOLVER 

High Quality Advice - Proven Results

             

contact me directly - 301-332-9540

email me directly - lewisporetz@gmail.com 

"I am not in the mortgage business - I am a highly skilled mortgage banker who is in the customer service business."

 

Comments (26)

Martha Brown
Long & Foster Real Estate, Inc., Annapolis MD 21403 - Annapolis, MD
Your Homes Around Annapolis Agent

Lewis- Interesting. I was on Zillow the other day and was amazed and shocked at what they had one of my listings rated as a sales price. I ws even more amazed at what MY home was rated. Down $250,000 from my appraisal of just 2 years ago. NOT! Have not used Trulia yet though I have signed up so we will see. Its like that commercial that says the waather is snowing everywhere. How can Zillow really know what is happening here? They should not have a free license to make such value claims just because they give a disclaimer. Ugh....

Aug 11, 2008 05:59 PM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Lewis....  lead generators of all forms have been out there now for 10 years easliy. Lending Tree paving the way.  I never tried Zillow and Trulia, because no matter how they started out of the gates or what quality that they promised, it's just almost impossible to make it near fool proof. Many loan officers will just bait and switch.  They don't know how to go about it the traditional ways and their only avenue is just that, lead generators.

Now, I have tried them and made some money, but just basically to pay for it. It's too much work and aggravation when being upfront and honest....as you have found. My 3 main focal points?  Blogging, sphere of influence, aka realtors, accountants, etc etc, and referrals.. (staying in front of past clients).  I truly think this combination would be the most successful.  The other stuff, takes more time away from my core business.  Becoming an expert online with quality blogs which has kept my business afloat.

jeff belonger

Aug 12, 2008 01:48 AM
Ed Tse
richvalley - Florence, TX

Bravo to your saying, "Zillow has an awesome concept but without some serious policing I am no longer playing the game."  I understand your frustration fully and love your idea of refusing to play game.

Our society is full of "pollution" with bogus messages.   If you said, "... bogus ratings obviously handed out by competitors is complete BS and I refuse to participate," I am just wondering where you are going to play?

So many new things have confused us and, with Zillow's limited sources, there seems no perfect way to "regulate" those slick activities.  Just as you give out your email address (and a marketer gets it), you can be rest assured that your E-mail box will be flooded with all kinds of Junk mails.   Similar as Google or Yahoo's search, here comes Ten thousands of links after you click "search."   Too much!  And I heard you and agree with you, "Enough is enough."

Your frustration is like mine in my article "Is Indymac Bank Alive When Melon Turns Into Lemon?  I was asked by the New York bank to keep my case number in all correspondence with them.   But every time I contacted them for the same case with the identical issue, their computer kept automatically giving me another Brand New "case" number.  

So, in 15 days, I have had at least 3 case NUMBERS for the same BS, what can we do about it?

 

Aug 12, 2008 03:22 AM
Robert Spaight
Homestar Mortgage - Barrington, RI

Lewis,  I had a similar experience with Zillow.  Everytime I would submit a legitimate rate quote, several other "originators" would follow up with low ball quotes that were just ridiculous.  It became such a waste of time that I just threw in the towel.

Aug 12, 2008 03:40 AM
David Gibbons
Zillow.com - Seattle, WA

Hi Lewis, it's David G from Zillow.com,

I'm sorry to hear that Zillow Mortgage Marketplace hasn't worked out for you yet. It's a numbers game and most LO's don't receive their first contact until they've submitted at least 100 quotes. That said, many LO's are closing loans from Zillow. Some of the common tips I'm hearing from LO's that have closed 10+ Zillow loans are:

  1. Quote close to home.
  2. Stay in your niche (FHA / bad credit / whatever.)
  3. Personalize your quote (using the notes field.)
  4. Social media marketing! The LO's who are doing best on Zillow are the ones that have invested the most time in their profile pages and in participating in Discussions on the site.

Contacts from borrowers also seem to increase as LO's attract reviews and so new lenders do have more of a challenge until they start to acrue a reputation on the site.

Regarding competing with impossible quotes; we have recently staffed up the moderation effort, are receiving useful flags from lenders and have removed some dishonest lenders from the marketplace and followed up with many more to ensure that they comply with Zillow's code of conduct. It's one of the awesome aspects of ZMM that quotes are transparent and so Zillow is unique in the ability for lenders to police each other. But it's important for lenders not to overreact to the transparency of quotes on Zillow and the conclusion that "most quotes on Zillow are impossible" is just plain false. Proof of that can be found in the aggregate mortgage rates that we report which are clearly realistic, so the vast majority of the quotes that go into that chart must also be accurate.

Aug 13, 2008 05:27 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

@ David....  what you laid out makes sense...  I would agree with most except for the opening statement.

"It's a numbers game and most LO's don't receive their first contact until they've submitted at least 100 quotes."  That first part, I agree with... it is a numbers game. And I want to expand on that.  I myself and several others that I know, take great pride in giving very accurate numbers and good faith estimates.  In many cases today, it takes more than just basic online questions to be answered. I am a true believer in this and will stand by it David... that when I screen a client, my first 2 important questions are :  1. What do you want to keep your payment at or around, on purchases... and   2.  What are your short term and long term goals. I can't and will not give quotes without asking these two questions and really fine tuning other questions that you have that have generic answers attached to them.   Overall, in a numbers game, some will not give the true attention that I feel is needed to accomplish what you have as a platform for lead capturing.  They will just rattle off numbers, hoping to connect with 100's of people in a week. Again, I think true value from the get go is lost in that type of method.  Just my opinion... and I need to LOOK at credit and not just a credit score and answers about their credit.  Especially on FHA... I like to be as precise as possible.

Here is what you said that I find semi humorous. "That said, many LO's are closing loans from Zillow." 

Of course, when it comes to a numbers game and or if someone is also low balling a consumer. I would find it very hard for you to police most of what you talked about in today's mortgage industry, because 90% of most rates on loans are determined by real credit scores.  It's very easy for a loan officer to say.. hey, everything changed because you estimated your credit scores to be this or used the Zillow credit estimator.  Loan officers sales people will use this to their benefit. 

Overall, I won't deny that it seems like your mortgage lead generation platform has come a long way. But every time you talk about it, you make it sound like it's fool proof or better than what is talked about. A loan officer that is a heavy hitter doesn't allows mean that he is the best or great. Ethics, mortgage knowledge, and just a genuine person can't be expressed when looking at volume. And in all honesty, in all honesty, I hate being sold on issues such as you have said.  We are talking about humans... sales people in this case. Many will mislead. I know this for a fact.  You can't police everyone, hence, your statements in some cases are even misleading to me. Just my .02

And one last thing....  in regards to your link to average mortgage rates?  They don't mean anything to me. Again, 90% or more of most rates are determined by credit score and down payment.  You can give an accurate end rate, a final rate. The national averages to me don't mean anything. And a good sales person will use this to their advantage, when they want to talk circles around the consumer or mislead them slightly down the wrong path, until settlement. I still see it often put there. And you can't possibly put a finger on that stat. Why do I say that...?  Many people that were bait and switch on their mortgage, after closing, never complain or report anything.  I know this from talking to many also. So, it goes back to your ratings and policing. Even though your platform is new, I don't buy into your stats. And besides, anyone can juice stats. right?  Just an observation that doesn't get mentioned.

jeff belonger

Aug 13, 2008 06:21 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

and David, read the comment right above yours, by Robert S. ....    this does happen and have seen it. How, I have had other loan officers on Zillow show me.  It happens.... niche or no niche.

And many of my comments might sound harsh in tone, but it's because I defend your comments made to other loan officers.  I don't want a sales person telling me what is great in their opinion and making it sound great.  Tell me the negatives also, and you might then sound like myself, of being a genuine and sincere person. We all sell, but that is how I sell to my clients. Giving them the good and the bad and not dressing up just the good to sound better.  I get that from many of your comments and I am not the only one that notices this. Again, just making a point. Be direct and not in a sales person tone.

jeff belonger

Aug 13, 2008 06:26 AM
Lewis Poretz
Apex Home Loans - Annapolis, MD
Business Development Manager

I do believe many loan officers are closing loans from Zillow but the "lowest rate" mortgage guy is something I never want to be associated with. When I get a loan I roll up my sleeves and make sure it is closabe loa befre I issue a loan commitment. This means getting docs, pulling credit, running AU, asking an appraiser for comps etc.... To me, it seems like the ones that respond to the lowest rate have a very low prospect to closing ratio. However, I guess a deal is a deal.

I always tended to want to be one of the higher lenders on zillow and I attribute that to not getting calls. But my intention was to just get my brand out there and pitch quality advice. The outrageously lowball quotes that I could not find from any investors is what gets me. If the policing is better, that's cool and I will revisit it yet again.

I can tell you that I do purchase zillow ads and have witnessed an increase in traffic to my web site.

I think it's pretty cool that people from Trulia nd Zillow monitor these blogs and try and address complaints and criticism with an open mind and an hoonest answer. Kudos to you both!

Aug 13, 2008 06:34 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Lewis.... beautifully said....   I agree 110% with every statement that you made. You made another point that I probably didn't make clear. I also don't want to be the lowest rate.  BEST RATE AND NO FEES get poor or bad service and in some cases, no closings. . lack of follow up.

I am a service provider and not an order taker or a rate quoter. Make it more about service and not low rates and I am all over it. Hence why I love blogging.. I get shopped, but they stay with me, because they see the quality in my blogs or when they speak to me on the phone for 20 minutes or more. By supplying quotes online, you won't get that in the beginning... you just won't.

Again, Lewis, you were right on. I sometimes tend to drag my comments out in point. Oh well, I am not perfect but damn good when it comes to mortgages.  lol 

jeff belonger

Aug 13, 2008 06:48 AM
David Gibbons
Zillow.com - Seattle, WA

Jeff -

I actually mentioned above that we've had to go so far as to kick lenders off Zillow Mortgage Marketplace so it's certainly not all sunshine and roses. And with rates increasing and products and investors disappearing the mortgage market frankly sucks right now and that macro climate also certainly does impact activity in ZMM.

I don't discount the value of mortgage planning but I also don't think it's quite at odds with quote-based marketing as what you think. The quote is now merely the conversation starter but a smart borrower still wants advice from their mortgage expert.

Aug 13, 2008 07:19 AM
Lewis Poretz
Apex Home Loans - Annapolis, MD
Business Development Manager

David -

With market based pricing changing all day long, sometimes with big swings in either direction, quote based pricing does not make a lot of sense to me. This may be me and only me, but unless mortgage companies can update quotes easily and efficiently on zillow, the opportunity for a bait and switch lender to throw out the hook is always there with a simple out - " the maket changed, so did my rate ".

Solve this and you are onto something.....

Aug 13, 2008 07:24 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

@ David....  my disagreement with this statement that you made : "The quote is now merely the conversation starter but a smart borrower still wants advice from their mortgage expert."

David...  I myself could bullshit with the best of them.  I could start off with a low rate as a conversation starter and still BS my advice. The average consumer doesn't know any better, unless they talk to 5 or more loan officers and or do a lot of research online. And these are for your borrowers with 660 or lower credit scores for the most part.  And if I can't start off with a great conversation and great advice, so they can see my value more clearly quicker, then it's a crap shoot for me and many other very good to great loan officers.  Which will leave you with those that are just average and will take this and run with it.

I am not trying to sound egotisical, but again, I don't care if you have a lender on Zillow that has 5 offices and 65 loan officers.  It doesn't make them a great company nor great loan officers.  Here is a great point...

I just received a call from a loan officer that has a client with 535 credit scores. I can still go below 580, many can't. I ask him to send me a 1008, a 1003, his clients credit report, pay stubs, and his assets. I still had one important question before I gave my answer. It was about some 30, 60, and 90 day lates on credit cards just this year. You know what the loan officer's answer was.  He is going through a very bad divorce and he is being sucked dry.  Okay, great story. Do you have proof of this?  No, I never asked for it.

Two points... this is a guy that told me that they are in 10 states, growing, opening up a 3rd office and they are moving into a bigger office and they have 40 loan officers just working in that office.  Wow, that sounds great.  But you still didn't follow through with another important question. "hey Mr. Client, can you get me this proof so I can make my decision."

That is critical in today's mortgage market. The day of quoting based on someone asking for a quote is long gone. You missed the boat with that platform a long time ago. Hence why Lending Tree is so popular.. they started early and even though their claim to fame is that they don't take crap from any lender or loan officer, that their are ethics.. standards... they hand out awards to top lenders.  They suspend bad lenders... they are endorsed by TV and my local tv station, channel 10 NBC in Philly. But you know what... the bottom line, bad news doesn't travel amongst the public with this lead generator. Only when you talk to clients on the phone or face to face that have gone through this.

My whole point... don't sell me that you can police your platform and make it way above anyone else's.   The average person doesn't complain to higher levels. This is a fact.  And it goes back to mortgage planning upfront, when I first talk to a client. In order for them to possibly talk to them, I need to Low Ball the rate with the other players and then blame it on the market. I just don't do that. I tell them flat out, I am not and won't be the cheapest, but I won't be the most expensive. I will be good, better than avg, but you will get great, professional advice, great service, great follow up.  But not the best, because I can't be every where for everyone in one day.  Rate shoppers and lead generators, expect it all. Hence why I get a better return on my time when it comes to blogging. People can read the service before even talking to me.

How about this... how about linking blogs to the loan officer's bio?  The loan officer's profile....  making their credibility even stronger, which would stand out a lot more than that average Joe loan officer that can spit out 150 quotes in one week, because that is all they are doing. Yes, I don't mind working for my money, but I am not going to chace my tail anymore. I did this for the first 8 years while in mortgages. Make the loan officer stand out other than just an initial quote and so so profile or quick written 3 sentence statement, and I will certainly take a look at this. And would dive into it, making the playing field more level.  And I just hired two new loan officers.... and hoping to add more, so this would work for me. I and my team are going for internet presense, and not just behind the scenes "low ball quoting".  thanks

jeff belonger

Aug 13, 2008 07:42 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

Lewis, ... another homerun with that comment....  another point that I meant to state. 

David, with my statement about being able to add more to my profile, so the consumer can read my stuff and with what Lewis mentioned, yes, you would have a great to very great product then. Pricing does change daily and sometimes a 1/4% just in a day. And loan officers know this and will use it to their advantage. I offer more than that, but I need to be in contact quicker or... they need to read some of my blogs to determine this themselves.  If you would read some of what I get in e-mails and what consumers tell me... they say things like this... I am with a loan officer now... or, I am talking to 4 others...  and they all say... I have been reading your stuff and I want your opinion or to deal with you, because you seem to know what you are talking about. A basic shopper won't get that in 2 days worth of quotes.

jeff belonger

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