Can you blog about a development or property if it's not your listing??

River Ridge at Hyde Park is a development of 162 one, two, and three bedroom townhomes. You can call that a "neighborhood" if you want, and in the process, somehow excuse what the other agent is doing, but I won't.

In California, we most definitely have builders developing entire master planned communities. They usually consist of several distinctly different and independent neighborhoods within the community itself, with some even built by competing builders in an effort to offer various styles of living and price points within the planned community.

A great example is Morgan Hill, a master planned community in Temecula, California. Here's an excerpt taken directly from their website (Copyright www.morganhillhoa.org)

Morgan Hill offers some of the finest executive-caliber luxury housing in the Temecula area. This elegant new community will service the need of many families for quality move-up housing while benefiting from Temecula's excellent location and offerings. In celebration of the wine heritage of the Temecula Valley, Morgan Hill utilizes a variety of plants and trees in its landscaping plan that evoke images of wine regions throughout the world.

With four distinct neighborhoods totaling around 450 individual units, Morgan Hill will embody an unrivaled lifestyle. Architecture ranges from Craftsman, Spanish, and Monterey to Traditional and Colonial. Homes are between 2,000 and 4,200 square feet, from two up to seven bedrooms, two to four car garages, and both single- and two-story homes.

The facilities are highlighted by a 10,000 square foot community center on three acres, complete with swimming pools, spa, tennis courts, gym, sauna, and outdoor patio with fireplace, and the Redhawk Golf Club, featuring an 18-hole course, located adjacent to Morgan Hill in Temecula.

BUT....we don't consider a 320-unit apartment complex a "neighborhood". We don't usually label a 200-space mobile home park a "neighborhood" either. And most agents here wouldn't call a 162-unit townhome complex a "neighborhood" either...but if that's what you wish to call it, that's fine with me.

Kinda makes you wonder if the Neighborhood Police is really only a security guard named "Al" for that particular complex doesn't it?

And either way, the semantics argument doesn't impact the wrongdoing of the agent...but I'm glad we agree to disagree on what to call it.

You wrote:

Because they currently aren't offering a particular price or floor plan does not mean it wasn't available at the time she wrote the post... again, she may have been perfectly accurate upon writing. 

Okay here, I don't mind saying this for the 406^th time in this post. It doesn't matter how accurate it was when written. She wrote about a new housing development which was under contract with another real estate office. It was done without their permission and I've posted her MLS's stance on that above. It also has to be accurately maintained and reflect current information according to NAR (scroll back up and re-read Standards of Practice 12-8 which is directly from NAR's site). And don't get mad at me, I didn't write the rules.

I only follow them.

You wrote:

A development is NOT a listing.  A listing has an address... not a zip code.  If she is not advertising a specific property, she is not advertising a listing.  Otherwise, if an owner in the development were to decide to sell, they would only be able to use the community agent.  After all, if they are the only ones that can market the community, no other agent would be able to market that property... it is within the community. 

How's this for an address?? It was taken directly from the News Release on the development, er uh...neighborhood's...er um...community...er um, universe's website:

Located at 42 Rolling Ridge off Route 9 in historic Hyde Park, River Ridge at Hyde Park features 162 one, two and three bedroom townhomes.

The rest of your paragraph above was slightly incomprehensible to me. I've already addressed the fact that if there's a resale in the development, she could blog about it...but she'd have to get THAT agent's permission and make sure the information was accurate on that too (which she's just not keen on doing apparently).

You know what she should have done???

She should have met with one of the homeowners at River Ridge....and painted everything from the homeowner's perspective. Kind of like:

"I had the pleasure of meeting with Sheila Johnson, one of the newest residents at River Ridge, a collection of luxury townhomes located in Hyde Park. Sheila has absolutely fallen in love with the lifestyle, amenities and quality of her new home. According to Sheila, she paid $429,900 for her home, which includes a spacious floor plan consisting of x bedrooms, x baths....(blah, blah)"

You could probably get away with murder by approaching it that way. But she didn't.

You wrote:

Your entire argument is built upon the misconception that a development can be a listing, and that a dveloper can control the speech about the neighborhood. 

To be blunt, it is illogical.  The "Exclusive Marketing" is for builder owned homes within that neighborhood... nothing more. 

To be blunt back, go ask ANY sales agent at ANY new housing development whether that project can be considered an exclusive listing..and whether (while exclusively listed by them and on the MLS) they can control the speech about it. The answer is a resounding yes.

***********  IMPORTANT  NOTICE TO ALL AGENTS  ************

Please, if you're a new agent (or even an experienced one)...do not follow some of the advice given here on this blog without first verifying the accuracy of those comments (yes, including my own) with your own office, broker, MLS, or NAR.

Lastly, I have a question: Is anyone bored yet?? ::: snicker :::

Dave
 



 

Not exactly sure how to respond to the post directly beneath mine above. Kinda looks like someone's testing to see if I'll delete it or not. It's certainly an ignorant opinion, but in the interest of "fair game"...I'll leave it. LOL!

Scott,

Yes, there ARE laws that protect Realtors (that's sort of what this entire blog is about). But THIS blog is about protecting a listing agent's rights. Here's the comment you're referring to:

If an agent is in obvious and direct violation of so many policies, the listing agent nor seller on a property is under any obligation to do business with her or her clients until the violations are cured. Even then, I'm not sure I'd count on getting any actual offers accepted under the circumstances.

Per the "agent in question's" blog, the development is currently denying her access to the property. I personally think they're well within their rights to do so. They've requested she stop advertising their listing as it's in direct violation of their MLS's published policies...and thus far she has not. Instead, she is willfully continuing to violate those policies...and those of the NAR.

That's not discrimination. Discrimination is when a prejudice or bias is made based on race, religion, sex, national origin or whatever. That's simply not the case here.

How an agent can expect the MLS to enforce certain "fair business practices" when she herself is willfully violating them is beyond me. I don't think she can. I believe the MLS would render a decision that said something like "You take down the unlawful advertising of the other office's listing...and we'll require that they offer the same cooperation afforded to other brokers." But, as stated in my comment above...I still think she might have a tough time getting any actual offers accepted under the circumstances.

Too many bridges burned??? I hope not.

She seems like a really nice and well-intended person. One who certainly meant well...but perhaps had gone about it in the wrong way. I sincerely hope that she's ultimately able to straighten things out with the builder...and can begin accomplishing what she originally set out to.

I appreciate your comment Scott. Thanks!

Dave

Ruthmarie,

Here we go again, huh??

There was a lot wrong with Jennifer's original blog....but I simply don't have the energy to reiterate everything 100 more times when it can so easily be found by simply reading above. It's already there. The summation, however, goes something like this:

1.) Her blog violates her own MLS's published policies
2.) Her blog violates NAR's published policies

Your 230 blogs (I've only read about 30 of them)...don't seem to fall under the category of advertising another agent's listing without their consent. Instead, they're rants about AR's unfair point system (which I agree with by the way), or blogs about pets, parking lots, politics and healthcare. Those blogs don't really count in the discussion of whether information has to be dated (or updated) as the case may be.

But if your blogs were about active listings, NAR (not me)...says they must be updated to reflect accurate information. A blog that's been stagnating with inaccurate information for 18 months is in absolute violation, regardless of whether it was true on the date written or not. Not my rule, by the way...although I certainly agree with it. If you want, you can read all about it under Standards of Practice, Section 12-8 at NAR's website (or simply scroll up).

If you find it to be WILDLY unreasonable, you should take that up with NAR, not me. And if you think she ought to be able to advertise another agent's listings without their consent, then call your local MLS.

But for you to continue stating your case here with its inherent inaccuracies seems silly, dont'cha think?

Lastly, in response to the (yet again) insulting comments in your responses, I guess I approach my current business in the same manner as I approached a hugely successful real estate career. I'm forthright and 99.99% accurate...and I don't mind going the extra mile to present information relative to my position. I'm also not one to mince words, whether negotiating on behalf of a million dollar property, or recommending a more successful marketing strategy to those who are in need of an expert opinion.

Case in point: By the way, since you seem to be okay with people using whatever information they want for their own purposes, whether right or wrong....I hope you'll allow my transgression to your side of the fence in this particular instance. I'm going to use your own website as an example.   P.S. I want everyone to watch for her reaction, as she's likely to cry foul due to copyright issues, using her site without her permission, etc. A lot of my points should be well-made by then.

Here is your current website:



From a purely marketing standpoint, I'd recommend that you re-position the ActiveRain rectangle covering the text toward the bottom of your home page. Its prominence adds nothing, and it leaves the viewer wondering what the words say underneath. I'd also recommend that you use your photo in any and all of your marketing efforts...and change your branding from a dog paw on a clip art "sold home" toward a more professional, appealing and business-generating look and feel. (The color scheme is good though.)

Here's the deal Ruthmarie...

There are 1,000's of sellers who think Realtors are rude and pompous. Could be because a Realtor, in their professional opinion (and based on their knowledge and experience) had to break the news to the seller that their home just isn't worth what they had hoped it to be.

Sometimes the truth hurts a little. I can't help that.

It's not the Realtor's fault the house didn't comp out. But a truly professional Realtor will back it up with supporting evidence, and refuse to take the listing if it's $100,000 overpriced. What would be the point?

They'll also steer a seller in the right direction if they "innocently" intend to break the law or misrepresent the property in any way. Some sellers may be offended by that too, but a good Realtor will do it anyway. And at some point the agent will need to make a determination as to whether it's worth sacrificing their professional reputation or integrity to work with that particular seller. It never was to me. It still isn't.

I guess it sometimes just doesn't behoove a Realtor to do business with everyone. But that's okay. There are a lot of really terrific sellers out there.

My honesty to you about your website shouldn't ruffle your feathers. But it probably will. And others may come to your defense stating that it should have been done in a more private setting. At this point, I disagree. The fact of the matter is you've been more insulting on this post than I ever was on Jennifer's. How ironic is that?

Nonetheless, just as I stated before...I respect your opinion...and I will not delete your dissenting comments ever. But I have a suggestion to make. Before giving me grief about my website commentary, you should wade through your personal reaction and/or sensitivities, take the advice in whole or in part, and do the right thing. It will absolutely help in the success of your business, I assure you.

Just as doing the right thing would have helped Jennifer's.

Thank you for your comment, as always.


Dave

Bill,

You go....!!!!! 

(Man oh man, that was tempting!!) LOL!

The funniest part about this whole thing is that if anyone agrees with me, they're not actually agreeing with ME at all!! They're agreeing with standards put in place by NAR and virtually all MLS's across the country.

The blog where my post was deleted is actually a scary place to visit. Nearly 100% of the responses are like Ruthmarie's above.

Dead wrong.

Virtually no one took the time to familiarize themselves with how NAR feels about it...or how the MLS approaches the agent's infraction. Instead, there's a party going on over there with people patting the agent on the back....telling her what a great job she's doing...and recommending that she not pay any attention to the jealous and money-hungry builder and his equally incompetent agents who simply don't want to share their commissions.

Hmmm....well wait. I guess it's possible that the agent who posted the blog may have deleted ALL of the posts which disagreed with her (not just mine). I found it interesting that she said in an email response that she deleted at least one of my posts without even reading it.

No matter.

With my experience and background...I can easily sit back and simply marvel at the lack of professionalism and utter disregard for our industry's rules and regulations. BUT...I can't help but pity the poor consumer who gets stuck with a "blind leading the blind" type of agent.

One day, when the NAR and various MLS's....along with the DRE's from each state begin perusing the boards to determine where their next disciplinary action will be...Ruthmarie's statement above that "blogs are the gift that keep on giving" will have been proven 100% correct!!

Thanks for your comment Bill!! It's comforting to know there are agents out there like you!!

Dave

Lane,

I appreciate you using my 10 Free Blog Headers post in your attempt to illustrate a point. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about here of course, but it does give viewers on this blog an easy way to find out what our design capabilities are. Thank you for being so gracious!! I appreciate that!

Oh...the blog is still completely relevant by the way. As opposed to using a time limitation...I specifically offered TEN blog headers for free. As I recall, those were scooped up in the first hour of the blog being posted. But the blog is still (and ALWAYS WILL BE) viable because it doesn't have to do with violating any of NAR's or a local MLS's policies. It will also REMAIN viable because people here are always going to be interested in locating a company who can create the highest impact headers for their blogs. They realize the ten free ones are gone because that's specifically addressed in that particular blog. I like keeping my info up-to-date, don't you?

Good try (even though it's painfully obvious that you're 'reaching' now.)

Secondly,

You show me (in writing) where NAR or any state's real estate commission agrees that I'm wrong and I'll be the first to admit it...and own up to it in all respects. But it has to be from BOTH, in concert, because my point is that she's in violation of one or the other or both depending on her state. It can also include published information from a regional MLS.

Which brings me to your last post.

I spoke to one of "my guys" who happens to be the lead agent at the development in question. Interesting conversation. She's professional, knowledgeable, friendly...and happens to work for one of the largest real estate firms in the entire northeast. They have some of the best in-house legal counsel, and although I'm not at liberty to disclose their plan of action, let's just say I believe we'll all find out soon the "right and wrong" of this particular situation.

As an aside, I'm 100% convinced that "your guy" at the GREC is equally confounded, confused and bewildered by your definitions of neighborhood, community, development, project, listing, advertising, blogging (or any other real estate term) to have even been REMOTELY able to provide you with an accurate answer to the question at hand.

Bummer, huh?

Dave

Warning: Not for the faint of heart

Lane,

For someone who's as wrong as you are, you sure can be belligerent in your wrongness! There's part of that I admire (the passion and willingness to stand up for what you believe in)...and part that I'm growing tired of (the drivel that has nothing to do with what we're actually talking about).

If the properties are not listed, how in the world can they have sales prices attached to them??? Her blog listed sales prices, even though they're old and inaccurate. Regardless, I don't know anyone who attaches a selling price to a piece of property unless it's...well....um...how do I say this?

FOR SALE!

Maybe that's a good gauge in determining whether it's a listing or not???? LOL!!

I honestly can't imagine how someone who's started their own real estate firm (Diamond Dwellings) could possibly be as blind as you are. I hope you have someone else handling the ethics training in your office.

You may find this interesting. Keller Williams is the offending agent's broker (you may have heard of Keller Williams??? They're a reasonably large and moderately successful firm)  :: smirk ::: Well, they apologized profusely to the lead agent of River Ridge (yes, the lead agent on the development contacted me.) Keller Williams said when they hired the agent, they knew she blogged, but had no idea she was intentionally violating NAR and/or her MLS's policies. They read the blog and promised that the appropriate action would be taken to have the offending blog and virtual tour taken down immediately. Houlihan Lawrence's attorney has also prepared a Cease and Desist Order in the event that Keller Williams does not comply in a timely manner.

I did notice the blog in question has now been converted to a "Members Only" blog, which at least prevents the general public from gaining access. That's a start, but it's still in violation.

Here's my suggestion to you moving forward.

If you're so intent on proving your point, please redirect your opinions to Keller Williams, Houlihan Lawrence and their attorneys, NAR or the county MLS system the offending agent belongs to. They all agree with me....and since I personally can't change the rules that were violated, perhaps you can take your case and pitch your cause to those who can???

Just so everyone knows why this dialogue with Lane is so adversarial, let me explain. If you visit Lane's profile, you'll see that he's accumulated 250,000 points or so...and as such, he was able to garner first dibs in AR's recent land rush. He bought a surplus of neighborhoods, acknowledging that he personally was not intending to use them all himself. Some were being reserved for his new office's recruiting purposes, and some were bought for friends whose points weren't as high as his.

I blogged about why I felt that was wrong in SOOOOO many ways....and he didn't like it. I also mentioned my disdain for those who spew out blogs for the sole purpose of accumulating points. They'll blog about barbecuing...they'll blog about race cars...they'll blog about politics and about state fairs. Sometimes they'll even blog about real estate. I think it's wrong that those bloggers got first dibs in the Land Rush, and now get to portray themselves as area real estate experts. Lane disagress with me. I now find myself especially concerned about the whole "area real estate expert" thing in light of this recent banter. I guess you only have to be a prolific writer to portray yourself as a real estate expert. That's a shame.

I feel sorry for the consumers out there.

As a consequence to all of that, I now have to put up with him using my "Ten Free Blog Headers" post as possibly the lamest justification for his attempt to be right. Custom blog headers have nothing to do with advertising another agent's listing without their permission. Blog headers in no way violate NAR's Standards of Practice. And my post giving away ten free blog headers didn't/doesn't violate a single MLS's Terms of Service.

I believe this is the millionth time I've reiterated this, but for any newcomers...let me say that NAR has very strict policies regarding the maintenance of online information which is disseminated to the general public about active listings. It must be updated in a timely manner. If it was accurate when written...great....but it better be accurate now if it involves an active listing which is being advertised to the consumer. It also has to include the listing agent's contact information, which the offending blog did not. And I believe NAR is right about this kind of thing. But...

Lane doesn't think so...and his "guy" doesn't think so.

Houlihan Lawrence (a New York real estate firm with over 1,000 agents selling 4 Billion dollars of real estate per year thinks so.) Their attorneys thinks so. Keller Williams thinks so. NAR thinks so and MLS's think so.

I guess everyone visiting this blog can decide for themselves who they wish to believe.

Dave


Lane, just have your guy put it in writing as requested in the post above. Then, you can copy and paste it here for everyone to see. I simply don't trust that he got the facts straight. Let's see if he'll put his name on it. ::: not holding my breath  :::

Lane,

I have an email I'm trying to send to Barbara Campbell, the President of the DeKalb Board of Realtors (I believe that's the Board that services your area?). I want to invite her to view this blog in its entirety, along with the offending blog...and give us her view on whether there's an infraction or not.

Problem is...every email I send to her gets kicked back by her email provider at bellsouth (AT&T). Another testament as to why agents should NEVER use that kind of service provider for their email. Yahoo, AOL, ATT and Earthlink all have spam filters that'll block 90% of incoming mail. I wonder how many buyer or seller inquiries she's lost so far?? Anyway...I'll try sending it to another director.

In regards to my presumption about you being in "retaliation mode"...I just can't imagine why anyone would take the approach you have. You're completely and utterly stuck on semantics...and/or my 'custom headers blog' which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I find it unreasonable that you've completely glazed over the fact that Keller Williams is requiring that the blog be taken down due to THEIR determination that it's a violation of NAR's policies!! Or that a major player in New York's real estate market agrees. Or that NAR's policies outlined above spell it out in the most basic way imaginable. Nevertheless, you ignore those facts. You keep insisting you're right...and the only "evidence" you've produced is your own version of what happened during a conversation with "your guy" at your state's real estate commission. Why don't you just give us his name so we can ask him the same question??? I won't hold my breath for that either.

I'm at the point where I believe, in light of Jennifer's offending blog...and Ruthmarie's (another KW agent) self-prescribed views on the topic....that Keller Williams will probably be sending out some sort of reiteration as to the "Rights and Wrongs of Real Estate Advertising" to their entire agent base. After all, something doesn't seem right about agents using the Realtor logo...and advertising themselves as Realtors....and whatever else they do as Realtors...if they so boldly decide on their own whether or not to shun NAR's own established guidelines.

(Just my opinion, of course.)

Dave

Cathy,

LOL....yep, not a whole lot of "cutting and pasting" going on here, that's for sure!!!

Thank you for finding the time...(er, uh patience?) to wade through most of the comments here. What a trooper you are!! I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion. The builder had given the agent ample opportunity to meet with them...gather information...and join the ranks of the many 'co-op' agents they already do business with.

And the agent was already getting inquiries from her 'questionable' blog, so it should have occured to her that there were decent paydays right around the corner, if only for a little bit of time invested...and simply doing the right thing. It would have been soooo easy!!! Talk about lessons learned!! Now her blog is being taken down...and the developer would rather NOT do business with her at all.

::: take out gun....shoot foot :::

I think many of us in this business often make real estate much harder than it needs to be!! That one hour's worth of time could have netted her tens of thousands of dollars. Incredible...and sad.

Also, I went and read your post about Localism. And I saw that your blog had received no responses. I'm so sorry about that! Seems like someone who understands Localism better than you and me...could have taken the time to help outa fellow 'Rainer'. I would suggest sending an email to Bob Stewart (he's ActiveRain's community builder...and is wonderful to work with.) I'm sure he'll guide you as to how things get rated and/or come up in Localism pages. Good luck with that!

Lastly...stick to your guns on the whole "integrity versus points" or "Google juice" issues (I know you will anyway). The one thing I've found true throughout my entire life is this. Those who are true to themselves always reap the greater rewards. That may not be the trillion dollars...but I'd personally  rather make a comfortable living...and sleep peacefully at night...and know who my real friends are....rather than sacrifice my personal integrity... and question everything about life while I lie awake at night.

I'm so glad you stopped by and said hello....and I welcome your comments any time.

:)

Dave