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An Open Letter to Joe the Plumber.

By
Services for Real Estate Pros with Transformative Action Coaching & Consulting, LLC

An open letter to Joe the PLUMBER...or CARPENTER...of God forbid, Joe the ELECTRICIAN:

Let me begin by telling you that I think you have a lovely home! You have done much to increase its value since you purchased it so many years ago. I especially admire the work you did when you finished the basement, added the powder room and expanded the kitchen. You have an excellent eye for detail and really know what today's buyers want in their next home! There's only 1 problem...you never got permits for the work you did.

home inspectionNow please understand...I know that you know what you're doing. The work looks pretty good to me. And trust me...I've been in a lot of homes! The problem is that nobody else knows how good you are! And our town enforces their building codes for one simple reason...to keep everybody safe. I understand that it was a pain in the butt to pull permits for a job that you could knock out in a weekend or two. Who needs the extra hassle? Besides... you probably do know more than that part time inspector does, right?! But here's the rub- my buyer doesn't know as much about this stuff as you do. They have 2 small kids and worry all the time about keeping them safe. The thought of moving into a house where the plumbing and electrical work wasn't properly inspected really scares them.

So let me tell you how I work. When my buyers find a house that they like enough to place an offer on, I go to the town municipal office. It doesn't take that much time, really. I stop by the Tax Assessor's office and pull the property card. It's public information, so they let me see it. I can even copy it for 50 cents if I want to (which I always do for my files). The card shows me how many bedrooms, baths and finished rooms the town thinks you have. It tells me whether the basement is finished or unfinished. Sometimes, I can even find out how many people your septic system is designed to handle. Then I compare what the card says to what I saw when I showed your home to my buyers. If everything is the same, we're good! But sometimes... well sometimes, there are discrepancies. Then I have to go to the office that handles building permits. If I see things in the home that aren't accounted for on the property card, I find out if the proper permits were obtained and closed. You'd be surprised how many times they weren't.

home inspectionSo here's the deal. My buyers really love your house...and they really want to buy it! But they need to know that they can sleep in it without being afraid. So you're going to need to get this permit thing resolved before closing. You'll need to have the town inspectors come out and check things over. They might need to open up the walls, pull apart the plumbing and even pull out some of the wiring. But they'll probably realize that you did really good work, so everything should be OK, right? I apologize for the inconvenience that this causes...but I have a fiduciary responsibility to my buyers to protect them through my diligence. Since all of this permit stuff is public information, I need to take the extra step and get it for my buyers. If I don't, I worry that I could be found liable in court if something really bad happened. And I hear that my negligence could even create a triple damages award. YIKES... I don't think my E&O would cover that!

Yes Joe, you're right...you could probably tell us to take a hike and move on to the next buyer. But we live in a full disclosure state. Since I told you and your broker about the discrepancies I found, you're both now aware. That means that you're both going to be responsible for informing the next buyer that all this work was done without permits...or you'll be the ones on the hook. That would probably jam up your marketing plan, and we'd hate feel responsible for it.  It's probably best to get this handled with us still at the table, wouldn't you agree?

So please Joe...don't just tell me that you did the work properly. Show me by getting the proper permits. My buyers are counting on me to find out... and I'm going to check!

Show All Comments Sort:
Melina Tomson
Tomson Burnham, llc Licensed in the State of Oregon - Salem, OR
Principal Broker/Owner, M.S.

Lane in Oregon even homeowners have to get mechanical, electrical, structural, or plumbing permits.  You are allowed to do it yourself, but you still have to have the city inspect it.

In fact we just had a bill on our November ballot that would allow homeowners to do $35,000 worth of work without getting permits and it was soundly defeated.

Feb 18, 2009 05:27 AM
Lisa Friedman
Alliance Realtors - Bedminster, NJ
Central New Jersey Real Estate

Hal - great post.  If I had to take a guess, I would bet that probably 85% of agents aren't proactive enough to do their due diligence with permits, being sure houses are listed for the correct size septic, etc.

Feb 18, 2009 05:47 AM
Kristi DeFazio
RE/MAX Advantage - Colorado Springs, CO
Colorado Springs Rea lEstate 719-459-5468

My inspector pulls all permits and lets me know what is not permited in the house. It is usually the basement that is done after the fact without the permit.

Feb 18, 2009 05:51 AM
Omega Omega
Omega - Glendale, CA

Hal - great post.  You may be getting a visit from the Cainster!!!! 'cause that's his guy.

Cheers!

Feb 18, 2009 05:56 AM
Richard Lecinski
Long Realty Company - Oro Valley, AZ

Some very good points made. Thank you! You just should have used a name other then poor Joe's

Feb 18, 2009 06:01 AM
Richard Lecinski
Long Realty Company - Oro Valley, AZ

Some very good points made. Thank you! You just should have used a name other then poor Joe's

Feb 18, 2009 06:01 AM
Jennifer Walker-Derby
Re/Max Westside - Marietta, GA
Real Estate Extraordinaire

like Missy, I rarely see permits on finished basements here (when already framed and wired) however I would expect them on any additions

Feb 18, 2009 07:06 AM
Kim Dean
www.GoSimplyTexas.com - McKinney, TX
Simply Texas Real Estate - Broker/Owner

Hal - this is GREAT stuff! I'm bookmarking it for reference. Thanks for sharing.

Feb 18, 2009 07:10 AM
Tibor I. Olah
Apex Results Realty Inc.Brokerage - Burlington, ON

Just another good reason why Title Insurance sounds good when Purchasing a home.

Feb 18, 2009 07:28 AM
Charlene Hamilton
Keller Williams Group One Reno - Reno, NV
Reno Relocation Real Estate

Good post and quite the word to the wise, Hal.  Thanks.

Feb 18, 2009 07:53 AM
Mike Russell
Revolution Real Estate Group | Real Broker, LLC - Overland Park, KS
Overland Park Kansas Real Estate

I am from Jersey, you have your work cut out for you. Everybody is a contractor or their cousin Joey is.

Feb 18, 2009 08:30 AM
Anonymous
Anonymous

It's tough to convince sellers that the value is diminshed because of the lack of permits, how much depends on the work.  Generally (every case is different) the lack of permits may not stop a buyer from putting in an offer but they will not count the additional work at full value.  Nor should they for all the reasons mentioned about.  In our office a building department check is manditory so it will come out if work was done without the paperwork.  

Feb 18, 2009 08:53 AM
#54
Maureen Bray Portland OR Home Stager ~ Room Solutions Staging
Room Solutions Staging, Portland OR - Portland, OR
"Staging Consultations that Sell Portland Homes"

Excellent post, and well written to boot.  We're very lucky in Portland OR in that the City of Portland keeps the permit info online and accessible by anyone, so this info is easy to obtain.  I hope that homeowners will heed your words of caution and get the necessary permits!

Feb 18, 2009 09:30 AM
Chris Olsen
Olsen Ziegler Realty - Cleveland, OH
Broker Owner Cleveland Ohio Real Estate

Excellent advice Hal -- I have not seen this issue addressed in the Rain before, so thanks for sharing!

Feb 18, 2009 09:54 AM
Kelly Young
The Platinum Group Realtors - Colorado Springs, CO
Colorado Springs Real Estate ~ 719-226-0126

Good reminder about doing your homework versus just taking things for granted.

Feb 18, 2009 09:55 AM
Harold "Hal" Benz
Transformative Action Coaching & Consulting, LLC - Westfield, NJ
Business & Life Coach For Agents & Entrepreneurs

Thanks, everyone for your feedback on this issue.

In my area like so many of yours, the biggest issue is that the additional work will cause a big tax increase. And yes, I'm from NJ...where the average tax burden is already equivalent to the GDP of several Latin American countries. I do understand the desire to stay below the radar on this stuff. But then I see the kids...and everything changes. We need to hold everyone accountable for quality work. There's just too much at stake...

Feb 18, 2009 01:22 PM
Buffy Creekmore
731 Village Realtors - Lexington, TN
Realtor / Broker in Lexington Tennessee

Hal, I really enjoyed reading this. I to would go through the extra steps to for my buyers but I am in a smaller county that doesn't require permits like most places. They are starting to catch up since they implimented electrical work to be inspected (this started sometime around 2004). I really try to convince buyers to do a home inspection and cringe when they decide to decline. Thanx for the info and good post.

Feb 18, 2009 09:10 PM
Anthony Rael
RE/MAX Alliance - Arvada, CO
RE/MAX Alliance

Excellent post Hal.  Thanks for reminding all of us how of the importance of proper due dilligence.  In Colorado, all of the current assessor records are readily available for download on the web 24/7 as well as some premit records - so there's no excuse not to have copies in our files as well as written correspondence with our clients showing that we've discussed it well before closing.

Feb 19, 2009 01:16 PM
Esko Kiuru
Bethesda, MD

Hal,

It would be nice to know what percentage of homes are renovated or upgraded without proper permits. It's easy to see that the liability issues can be huge for a real estate agent.

Feb 19, 2009 02:20 PM
Bill Gassett
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Hopkinton, MA
Metrowest Massachusetts Real Estate

Hal this is a great topic to cover. As a buyers agent that is one of the questions I will always ask if I know a major improvement has taken place.

Feb 22, 2009 12:46 PM