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Short Sale Discussion

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Real Estate Agent with Realty One Group Preview 83866

As an expert on short sales in Washington, I have helped counsel many buyers and sellers through the process and have had many common asked questions about how it works. If you have further questions, please feel free to add them and I would be happy to answer.

Q: What is a short sale?

A. With real estate prices currently at the 2005 level, many homeowners find themselves needing to sell and owe more than they can sell for. If they have the money to pay the bank for the loss, they will not be considered for a short sale with debt forgiveness. Many sellers can no longer make their payments due to loss their job, recent divorce, failure of business or were a victim of the sub-prime market and need to sell. There is a possibility these distressed homeowners may qualify for debt forgiveness, but need to prove they do not have the money or will not have the money in the future to pay back the debt. The home is listed without any conversation with the lender and a short sale packed including the seller’s financials and hardship letter is prepared. Upon receipt of an offer, the seller signs off on terms, although most terms are not official without lender’s approval. The status becomes “Pending BU Requested” as the lender requires the listing agent to submit all offers until approval. The packet is submitted and is in line for the lender to review. This timeframe roughly takes between one and three months to get a response. The bank orders a BPO, which values the home and is assigned a negotiator to work with the investors and buyer to come to terms. Once the lender approves a price, they send an approval letter with an end date to close by. With Form 22SS, the timeframe for the inspection and financing contingencies begin upon lender approval although can be done prior.

Q: When does the bank become involved?

A: The bank does not talk to the seller or listing agent until there is an offer in hand. The listing price may be far less than the bank is willing to receive initially which commonly confuses the buyer. Once they have an offer, the BPO is done which in turn values the property for the bank. The BPO is current market value done by a local agent. Many times the first buyer walks away as they are not interested in paying the BPO amount. The longer the home sits on the market and the closer the foreclosure date, the lower the price the bank will accept. It is the BUYER'S agent's job to research the seller's financial situation to determine the likelihood of the bank accepting their desired price. I always sit my clients down and explain each scenario and set their expectations correctly so there is no last minute confusion. It is important to understand that the lender will always negotiate, so it is imperative to start your offer below what your walk away price is, similar to any negotiation. Currently, lenders are starting to realize they will make more money on a short sale than if they move forward to foreclosure. Banks have so many foreclosures on their books that they are more inclined to work with interested buyers before they foreclose.

Q: Do most short sale require the buyer to skip an inspection?

A: It is highly recommended to get an inspection on any home, especially a short sale as many times homeowners in distressed situations do not care for the home as they should. The inspection can be done upon mutual acceptance with the seller to avoid waiting up to three months for lender approval OR can be done upon lender's approval after waiting to avoid paying the $400-$500 inspection cost. The issue is when you find items that need repair. If the seller is in a distressed situation where they need debt forgiveness, the seller is not in a position to make repairs. It is possible to renegotiate with the bank, although sometimes they will not re-negotiate. Either way, the inspection is mainly for the buyer's information to know what condition the home is they are buying and what items will need to be addressed in the future.

Q: I did some Googling and read that only 10% of the short sales come to sale and the rest become bank owned. So sounds like a very depressing success ratio.

A: The statistics you read may look depressing, but want to remind you the buyer is unique for a short sale transaction... they are looking into other options while waiting on the lender response, and also looking for an extremely aggressive price. The amount of offers submitted and sales that occur are skewed because many buyers walk away if they find a home they like better, or if they do not get the price they want. I have sold many short sales as they are the majority of the market and have had a much higher success rate.

Comments(72)

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Mark MacKenzie
Phoenix, AZ

Kenzie:  I like your name. :)

I don't work short sales but this is the first time I have seen a percentage associated with them in terms of close ratio at 10%.  It doesn't look like I am missing out on much.

Mar 12, 2009 09:27 AM
Joetta Fort
The DiGiorgio Group - Arvada, CO
Independent Broker, Homes Denver to Boulder

This is in response to Andrew's comment - I've been running into a lot of short sales with an investor (or negotiator) involved. I don't know if Andrew does this exactly the same way, but around here the investor requires the owner to sign over the title BEFORE the lender has even agreed to a short sale, even tho the investor's closing on the house is contingent to the lender agreeing.  That's why the sellers want their attorney to look at the paperwork.  ANd while I've had many discussions with these investors and the agents who use them, buyers still have a problem because most of the lenders don't like the double closing (the investor wants to close on the same day as the new buyer).

So . . .  agents are taking short sale listings, but then the investor gets involved, which makes things much easier for the listing agent (because the listing agent doesn't want to do all the extra work required). The investor has to make a profit, so the house is put on the market at a higher price than it could have been without the investor's involvement.

So you've lost the buyers on two counts - the fact that their lender considers the transaction 'illegal' (which is what a lender I highly recommend to all my buyers called them), and the fact that they're higher priced than other, similar short sales.

Now, the listing agent's job is to find a buyer, but to avoid doing all the work themselves the listing agent gets someone involved who causes buyers to look elsewhere.  How is that a picture of the listing agent looking out for their client?

BTW - I've closed all the short sale listings I've taken.  I just refuse to take so many that I can't do my job.

Mar 12, 2009 12:44 PM
Joshua Will
Keller Williams Realty - Austin, TX

Love the post.  Many things were mentioned here about short sales, what would you all consider a viable learning/informational source?  Does one exist?

Mar 12, 2009 12:50 PM
Simon Mills
Mills Realty - Toluca Lake, CA
Real Simple. Real Savings. Real Results.

I have been successfully handling short sales and I have a couple of comments on your post.  The first is I never have a seller sign off on a contract until the lender responds.  This way I don't have an accepted offer and I can continue to market the property as Active.  This is key as the lenders generally talke so long to respond that the first offer has already purchased something else by the time the response come in.  Secondly, a lender only wants one offer at a time otherwise they start the ENTIRE process over again.  I hold all other offers in a file until I get a response from the lender and if the lender wants me to counter the original offer I counter everybody.  I haven't done the Google search, but it sounds very low.  I would have to go back to check, but I would guess my success rate is around 90%.

Mar 12, 2009 12:53 PM
Patrick Burno
CENTURY 21 - Charlotte, NC

As a buyer agent what questions should I ask the LA about a short sale property before I write an offer for my buyer?

Mar 12, 2009 01:25 PM
Sonia Johnson
eXp Realty - Ipswich, MA
Serving Boston's North Shore & Southwest Florida

Wow!  What a range of information on this topic.  Where I practice real estate almost all the deals I'm invovled with right now are either short sales or REOs, and we have very few of these in our area.  I find that my buyers are looking for bargains and this is where they're at.  My experience to date has only involved 2 bank owned sales where I represented the buyer and 1 sucessful short sale with 2 pending.  In this area we highly advise the seller or listing agent to hire an Intermediary to qualify the seller for a short sale, explain the process and do all of the negotiations with the lender, communicating directly with the listing agent and sometimes directly with the buyers agent.  In this area the lender is paying 1% of the sale price for this service, but it is so worth it for everyone involved.  I'm told as a buyer agent that I can also add this as a special provision on my offer.  I haven't tried this yet, but with 1 of my pending deals that isn't using one I am so tempted!!!  Typically the 1st offer on a short sale (in our area) can and does take up to 90 days to get responded to.  If the lender has lost a buyer after this long time period and another comes along shortly after for a similar price they will move that offer into acceptance very quickly and you could actually close in 2-4 weeks times from the date of acceptance.  I would never advice a buyer to have a home inspection prior to an acceptance unless you are pretty certain they would be securing the property.  The intermediary person can usually be a good judge of where the lender is at and can offer good advice.  If the seller has a 1st and 2nd mortgage, the 1st mortgage is typically forgiven, but the 2nd mortgage will want some money back w/ 0% interest over the next 10 years of any where from $50 or more to satisfy at least $5k going towards that debt.  As for the tax issues, I would highly recommend contacting an Accountant as these things are changing all the time along with our lending practices.  For those of you that are not involved in these, you might want to make a point to get educated, we are going to see a lot more of these before they get fewer over the next year or so.  Look at how many jobs are still being lost.  These people haven't even started defaulting on their mortgages.  I heard today at our Board Breakfast meeting that when a home is foreclosed on it costs the lender on average $59k to perform.  Lenders are also accepting up to 82% of the BPO value on these properties, so it's worth negotiating further than the asking price.  You will have to be careful with just how much municipal lien debt is on the property in addition to mortgage debt as I believe with the municipal liens the buyer will need to pay this along with any late condo fees if it's a condo.  Once the bank takes ownership that debt is wiped out and transferred without this.  Also, make sure your buyers are purchasing howe owner title insurance on these properties. 

Selling these bargains can be addicting, but very depressing!  At what point will the line be drawn on people needing to leave their homes???  It's very sad out there : (

Thanks for posting this! 

 

 

Mar 12, 2009 02:30 PM
Loan Survivor Real Estate Financing Expert
Purchases, First Time Buyers, Pre-Approvals, Refinance - Birmingham, MI

Pretty basic stuff, but it needs to be drilled into the heads of the public:)

Mar 12, 2009 02:34 PM
Robin Basichis
Rosen&Company West - Las Vegas, NV

A SHORT SALE IS ANYTHING BUT SHORT

I am guessing that those of you who have been involved in short sales may have had similar experiences as mine.  I live in Las Vegas, and though it has not gone undisputed, Las Vegas is certainly running neck and neck with Fort Myers, Phoenix and a couple of other cities for clinching the title in the heavy weight division of Foreclosure Capitals.  The banks own nearly 85% of the homes in our city. A lot of these homes were investor owned until the bubble burst and equity took a hike. Hardly anyone has equity now a days. If you bought a house thirty years ago, never refinanced it and payed it off, you have equity, otherwise you probably own a liability.  If you bought a house in this century and didn't put a ton of money down chances are you are upside down.  People that bought homes in 2003 and 2004 that were valued at for $400,000 are now living in homes that are worth less than half of that. Most people aren't stupid and they start thinking, how long is it going to take me to recover that money that I lost on this place?  Ten years, twenty years?  They're sick about paying a mortgage on a house based on a value that is twice as much as it is really worth.  I get lots of calls from folks asking me, how do I get out of this mess?  They don't want to just walk away from the house and lose their credit - they want to negotiate with the bank and maybe do a Loan Modification or even a Short-Sale. Here's the first problem - If you and your family are working hard, making a decent living and paying all your bills, which includes your mortgage, the bank does not want to hear from you about loan modification or about short sales.  If you never had a late payment and your credit is strong the bank will give you sound advice by telling you if you can no longer afford your home you should sell it and buy a house you can afford.  After you tell them you can't sell your house for half of what it's worth the bank will say that you will just have to make up the difference somehow, and how you do it is not their problem - after all you are the one that asked them for the loan - they didn't come after you - or maybe they did, but that doesn't matter now. How unfortunate and sick is it when you get caught in a situation of being a good hard working citizen, pay your bills on time, and those actions you performed in good faith and honesty have placed you in the worst possible category to be when it comes to wresting your way out of a home that has become a liability and a bad real estate investment.   Now we move to the next problem.  Let's say you want to move and you'll worry about the other house later - you just want to get into a home about the same size you are living in now for half the money, but you don't have a ton of money and your credit is not quite good enough to buy another home while you still own the one you are living in.  What do you do?  What happens even if you do have some money and your credit is strong enough to qualify you for two homes - the bank usually will not lend you money for a home that has less value than the original value of the home you are currently living in?  The bank wants you to move up not down.  Even in the best of times they frown upon those who want to downsize to a smaller home.  You think about this for awhile and decide you are no longer willing to throw good money after bad by paying on a rotten investment.  You want out of the house.  If your credit has to take a hit so be it.  If you have to rent for awhile, well their are plenty of rental properties out there for the taking.  You stop paying for a couple of months.  For the first 60 days the bank starts sending you threatening letters.  They will foreclose - you will be naked in the street - you will be tarred and feathered for not meeting your obligations - so you better bring your loan back to current status if you know what's good for you. Then, when you get closer to 90 days deliquent all of a sudden the bank turns from Methuselah into a Dutch Uncle.  You start getting letters from them asking how they can help - what can they do?  After they ratted you out to the credit bureaus for late payments and destroyed your credit to the point where you can't get enough financing to buy a Yugo, they want to be your friend.  You call the Loss Mitigation Department and they give you some options.  You decide you want to do a short-sale and cut your losses.  The bank will ask your or your broker for all types of documents like bank statement, tax returns, hardship letters, purchase agreements, listing agreements, listing broker - it just goes on and on.  You send them all that stuff.  You wait a while and then you call them to find out if they received everything. After they finally figure out who you are they tell you that it takes several weeks for the package of documents to get into the system, so you wait some more.  You call again, say in about three weeks from the first phone call - again they tell you the same thing - it has not gotten into the system yet, but when it does it will be forwarded to a representative.  For months you keep on calling and you get the same answers.  Then one day you receive piece of registered mail.  The envelope is thick and it has the name of your mortgage servicing company on it.  You open the letter and inside is a Notice of Default or an Intent to Foreclose. You get sick inside.  You blame you spouse for talking you into this horrible mess.  It would have been better to have just kept on making payments, at least we would still have a roof over our heads. Now what's going to happen?  The car is just not big enough to hold two kids and the dog.  You call the loan company and they put you on hold for an hour and then you get disconnected.  Finally you get through.  You ask for the person that you dealt with last time but nobody knows who that person is or where to find them. You tell your story about how you sent in all the proper documents and have been waiting patiently for them to be processed.  They put you back on hold for another hour and then they come back.  The person on the line tells you that you were missing one document and they canceled your file.  You ask what document and they tell you.  You tell them you sent that document and become infuriated when they tell you they didn't receive it.  You ask them why they hadn't contacted you and they say they did try to contact you but they were unsuccessful.  You want to know what to do now.  The person on the other end tells you there is nothing you can do.  You ask to speak with a supervisor and they put you back on hold.  The sun is starting to go down when the supervisor gets on the phone.  He listens to your sad story and tries to act sympathetic. First he tells you there is nothing he can do. You keep on telling your story about how you sent in all the necessary documents and how you have been following up with phone calls on a regular basis. Your wife is standing behind you biting her nails and telling you all kinds of things you should be saying that your not saying. He checks the records in his data base and finds out you are telling the truth.  Finally he takes pity on you and tells you to submit another package.  You are shocked he is asking you to do this - you ask him why he can't use the original package and he tells you he can't use it because your file has been closed and a new one has to be opened. Don't you know a new file requires new documents. You franticly pick through your papers until you retrieve all of your documents and send them out once again.  The process starts all over again.  You call - they tell you it will take several weeks to get in the system.  Now your wise to them and are no longer satisfied with that answer - right away you ask for a supervisor.  The supervisor tells you he will put a rush on your file and make sure that one of the representatives receives it.  Still you wait. The average short sale takes five to six months to consummate. That kind of time-line works against you in this market.  After you have finally found a buyer and submitted the Purchase Agreement six months go by and the house is no longer worth what it once was.  It has to be reappraised.  The mortgage company does another appraisal but the bank that your buyer is using has their own appraisal on the property that is less then your lenders.  The buyer starts getting nervous about over paying and tells you if he doesn't get a price reduction he is walking.  

I have been down this road several times.  Any company that tells you they can do a fast and easy short sale for you because they know the ropes is lying. It is a long, tedious and frustrating process without any guarantee that you will be able to sell the house in the end. It is hard to name and or identify the best actions that should be taken when you are upside down on a home.  I don't claim to know what the best moves are, but I can tell you the best scenario.  If you are a married couple and one of you bought the home in severality - in other words just one of you shows up on title, and the spouse who is not on title is credit worthy, he or she can purchase the next house without being affected by the Short-Sale or Loan Modification on the original house.  If you fall into that category then you should hop in the car or go online and take your pick of the the foreclosed properties you have been seeing and hearing about.  There are tons of them and you can wind up with one hell of a deal.  If you don't fall into this scernario there are other ways around the problem - each case is pretty much situational.  If you are a broker - agent - or homeowner and are not familiar with this process give me a call and I will do anything I can to help.  I have negotiated with several banks on Loan Modification and Short Sale and I know the drill.  It does not make it any easier - I do not have the magic potion to get it done, but I do understand what happens when you get involved with banks and what the pitfalls are.  I can be reached at robsellsvegas@cox.net or at 702-279-8025.  I will be happy to speak with the bank on your behalf.  Respectfully -  Rob Basichis  

Mar 12, 2009 03:25 PM
Linda DeRusha
Coldwell Banker Advantage - Garner, NC
Broker/Realtor, ABR,ASP,CDPE

Kenzie,

Thanks for the post. This is a very timely issue. I have just listed a short sale today and we will see how it goes.

have a great day--linda

Mar 12, 2009 03:52 PM
Paul Francis
Francis Group Real Estate - Las Vegas, NV
Las Vegas Real Estate Agent - Summerlin Homes

The only thing certain about short sales is that every transaction is different... That's all I've got to say about that.

And the biggest question before hiring a REALTOR when it comes to short sales... How many have they actually closed?

 

Mar 12, 2009 04:25 PM
Holly Weatherwax
Associate Broker, Momentum Realty - Reston, VA
A Great Real Estate Experience

Kenzie, this is valuable information.  Short sales can be frustrating for buyers because the process varies from transaction to transaction and bank to bank. I created a posting this week in an effort to share information about each our experiences with different banks:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/978570/Short-Sale-InformationWant-to-Share

I hope this helps any agents or buyers who are contemplating a short sale.

Mar 12, 2009 11:50 PM
Pat Mulligan
RE/MAX Peninsula - Newport News, VA

I have noticed a lot of varying opinions, which may be due to the local market, but some seems inaccurate.  I am surprised in this long discussion, and even several mentions about getting knowledgeable to help your clients, no mention was made about formal educational offerings.  Here are two that I know of that might be helpful: 

The  ABR elective course (open to non-ABR's too) : Foreclosure Prevention and Opportunities for Buyer-Clients

And the course that RE/MAX's Founder, Dave Liniger highly recommends:  Certified Distressed Property Expert -- For more information, contact the Distressed Property Institute at 800.482.0335 or at distressedpropertyinstitute.com.

 

 

Mar 13, 2009 12:00 AM
Chip Jefferson
Gibbs Realty and Auction Company - Columbia, SC

Great post I re-blogged it.Welcome to AR and I look forward to reading more from you!

Mar 13, 2009 12:32 AM
Patti Chapell
Potomac Real Estate School - Oakton, VA

Chuck said that the buyer should just go with a home warranty in place of an inspection.  I wouldn't recommend it.  I have had too many buyers lose out because the home inspection company said that the defect was a pre-existing condition and therefore was not covered.

Patti

Mar 13, 2009 04:25 AM
Kenzie Kipper
Realty One Group Preview - Stanwood, WA

In the past, a homeowner who received debt forgiveness from a lender
received a 1099 the next tax season because the IRS sees debt
forgiveness as a taxable event.  However, there was federal
legislation that passed in 2007 waiving this for the homeowner. There
are some special provisions for example, owner occupied residence,
etc. Here is the IRS website link:

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=179414,00.html

There was also some confusion a few months ago that our state
department of revenue was going to try and collect excise tax on short
sale debt forgiveness but the state backed down:

http://www.raincityguide.com/2009/01/10/is-excise-tax-payable-on-short-sale-debt-forgiveness/

 

Mar 13, 2009 06:50 AM
Ricky Gibson Sr
Innovative Real Estate Investors, LLC - Prairieville, LA
REI

Mary,

Not all investors are ethical and operate in integrity. If you have some investors that you have worked with in the past and you know them to be above board, then by all means refer the short sale candidates to them for negotiation with the lender. Afterwards you can agree to list the house for them for the B to C transaction.

Mar 13, 2009 07:47 AM
David Monroe
Keller Williams Realty - Kirkland, WA
Short Sale Real Estate Agent

Great post, Kenzie.  The one truth about short sales is that there will always be a certain amount of unpredictability.  A lot of the information on the Internet about short sales is incorrect and it causes a lot of confusion.  The average loss mitigator has 300 active short sale files, and they want to spend the smallest amount of time possible on each file.  One thing that loss mitigators hate (and it apparently happens all too often) is incomplete short sale packages.

In my opinion, no matter how much formal training you have on short sales, there's no real substitute for actual experience.  Knowing how to do a short sale (from the classroom) is very different than actually going through one.

Also, for those agents who are negotiating their own short sales or outsourcing the negotiation to a short sale negotiation service--Be careful!  Real estate agents and brokers are allowed to engage in the limited practice of law by completing blanks in pre-printed forms and negotiating a sale price for a property on behalf of the client.  In Washington State, the Supreme Court definition of the practice of law includes "negotiation of legal rights or responsibilities on behalf of another entity or person(s)".  Short sales would fall under that description.  There's nothing written in our state laws that I'm aware of which specifically allows real estate agents to negotiate the legal rights and responsibilities on behalf of a seller relating to their mortgage (i.e. short sales).  While real estate agents generally don't get in legal trouble by negotiating short sales, a seller that didn't like the outcome of a short sale negotiation could sue the brokerage claiming that the agent was acting outside their capacity as an agent.  I know this may vary from state to state, but I tend to be cautious so things don't come back to bite me later.

I use an attorney to negotiate my short sales, and I make it clear to the buyer's agent that the short sale is being professionally negotiated by an attorney.

Mar 13, 2009 10:00 AM
James Phillips
Huntington Beach, CA
(HouseHunt) REALTOR

Good post Kenzie, I think Short sales would not have as bad a reputation if more agents were like you :)

Mar 13, 2009 10:28 AM
Sonia Johnson
eXp Realty - Ipswich, MA
Serving Boston's North Shore & Southwest Florida

I would love to know the protocol for sending offers into the Lender over the course of a month's time or so.  Does the Lender look at the 1st offer only, or do they look at all offers?  I'm getting mixed feedback on this one.  My 1st short sale told me the Lender was only looking at the 1st offer, even if the 2nd 1 was higher.  Although when it was higher, he told me so and we increased our offer and they accepted it.  Does it matter if only 1 offer of say 2 or more were signed by the Seller first when it comes to the bank considering more than 1 offer.

Help... I'm confused by this process.  Maybe it varies from lender to lender as well.  I would think they would go back to the 1st offer or both to see what their highest offer would be, then decide.

Thanks -

Mar 13, 2009 01:49 PM
David Monroe
Keller Williams Realty - Kirkland, WA
Short Sale Real Estate Agent

Mary,

I tend to be very risk-averse.  That's why I have my short sales negotiated by an attorney.  I think an investor runs a much higher risk of getting sued than a real estate agent, and I know investors that have been sued.  In each case, they were negotiating their own short sale.

With that said, there seems to be an unwritten assumption (at least in Washington State) that it's okay for a real estate agent to negotiate a short sale as part of the transaction they're facilitating, so a real estate agent won't go to short sale jail for negotiating a short sale.  Negotiating your own short sale is probably better than outsourcing it to a short sale negotiation company that's not attorney-driven.  I heard of a broker that got sued by a seller after the agent outsourced the short sale negotiation to an investor and the seller wasn't happy with the results.  The investor was apparently named in the lawsuit, but the broker was the primary defendent.

Also, this is really not new information.  It's just new to most real estate agents.  After all, most agents had never heard of a short sale a couple years ago.

Mar 13, 2009 04:39 PM