Is it a code violation?

Mike, You are right that the "Codes" officials have the final say so and what is accepted varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. It is up to us to point out the "red flags" that we see. Good post...

First of all I appreciate home inspectors and what you do.  I have a couple of great ones that I recommend to my buyers whenever we get a ratified contract.  However every once in awhile when I get a HI report on one of my listings and it says that lack of GFCI outlets in a bathroom are a "code violation" , or that a kitchen without an operable window is a "code violation" or that 2 prong outlets are a "code violation" I want to scream.  Often they forget the age of the home and what was required when the home was built is not what may be code today.  Then I have to talk both my sellers and the buyers agent back to reality about what is really an issue and what is just the way it is.

MORNING MIKE!  Nice post!  Just had the issue with double taps on electric.  Home is 45 years old - when box was put in it was "code" - inspector made a real issue about it - to the point the client thought the home would burn down.  Even though it hadn't burned down in 45 years.  So I am glad you point out that not code doesn't mean unsafe. -- Gabrielle

Mike-thanks for leading me to your other post.  I grew up in and eventually owned one of those pesky two pronged homes.  We did just as you suggested and had no problems.  I'm going to put your post in my saved file!

Just because a code official deems something safe or to code does not "necessarily" mean it is either safe or up to code---or OK.  Frankly a code official's opinion is just that, his opinion----no more, no different than the home inspector's opinion.  Either one can be backed up by codes, manufacturers instructions, EPA recommendations, CPSC recommendations etc etc.  The consumer must listen to everything and choose for themselves what fits with their own needs.  Every day I find things that some code official has signed off on and yet they are not safe and are not OK.  We are all part of the checks and balances that keep people safe.  Regarding double taps is that they DO NOT get better with age.  So something that has not been a problem for 45 years the odds of its becoming a problem go UP not down.  The NEC is typically silent on how many wires can go under a screw, leaving it to the direction of the manufacturer.  It would be interesting to know if any manufacturer of old electric panels ever allowed two wires under one flat head screw.  The mechanics of how screws work would make that doubtful---especially if we are talking about different sized wires.

I will agree with Charles. I will report on items that are not up to "Code" but I have never used the term "Code" in my reports. I simply state that an item is "not up to today's standards" and let the client determine it's importance.

I think code is usually common sense, there are other times it leaves something to be desired. For example, the 29" deck does not need a rail, add an inch and you got one. I have inspected older condos, four floors up, and found wide gaps between the spindles on the guard rails. The people buying had pets or grand kids. Maybe code allowed the gaps back then, but I will at least point out to the folks that 4" between spindles sure would be safer for their situation.I realize that, with everything you have to have numbers and start somewhere but, as an inspector, I try to gently make suggestions when code or old code is not appropriate for a given situation.

LOL, I must commet here.  After having inspected over 2500 properties, I have a pretty good idea what works and what does not.  True, most HI Standards of Practice prohibit "calling code".  We are NOT the AHJ and have no legal grounds.  What was code when the house was built is not what is code now.  Codes change.  They are always "behind th curve" and reactive.  Not to mention, they get adopeted by the local AHJ a couple years AFTER they are updated.  Things happen, the incident(s) are evaluated, the code gets rewritten to correct the area that allowed the incident to occur.

The HI is there to spot SAFETY issues.  Based on experience, both personal and that aquired by training and information exchanged with other inspectors, a good HI will point out deficiencies that could or are likely to be a problem, either right now or down the road.  He has no authority to enforce anything.  You are paying them to tell you what, in their opinion, is a potential problem.  We did not get a crystal ball with our tool kit. Remember Murphy's Law.  If we do not point someting out as a problem, it will probably blow up behind us! LOL

A good HI will also put their findings in perspective and give the client an idea how important the various faults they found, and reported on in writing, are to the overall condition of the house. Always remember, if it isn't written, it did not happen! 

What the HI rambles on about during the debriefing after the inspection is pretty much determined by the clients reaponse and questions. If they are just standing there with glazed eyes, I know they are not getting it and I need to really put more effort into getting them to understand what I'm saying.  This extemporanious verbal explanation can get out of hand and things get said that shouldn't be.

Unfortunately, crafting a well written report, that comunicates well, is an art developed with much experience and an ability to communicate clearly in writing that many HIs never develope or get very good at.  At this point, the Agent needs to be able to step up and put it together for their client.  This is best done a bit later under less stressful conditions.  You can always call the HI back for clarification on specific points.

Regarding the comment: 

So, if approved it is no longer a code violation or a defect. In other words it is OK

There are a few breakers that accept more than one conductor,  however the breaker must be "so identified" to accept more than one conductor per the electrical panel and breakers listing and labeling instructions, which must be followed not only per code but in order to remain safe. 

Tests at UL and practical experiences throughout the country indicate that the terminal may not remain tight when more than one conductor of any size is used, unless that terminal is specifically tested and listed for use with more than one conductor.  That information is found marked on the product (printed on circuit breakers), on the disconnect labels, in the instruction manuals for load centers, in the catalogs for some of the products, and on the cut sheets for other products.  Following the guidance and instructions supplied by the manufacturer and the code is the best way to ensure a safe and long lasting connection.

The basic problem is that most folks believe that when a home receives a "final" from the local AHJ that it's a safe home. This is not always the case and therefore why it makes sense that every home buyer should retain a competent Home Inspector to check their purchase.

I try to leave code compliance issues to the authoirty having jurisdiction (AHJ), but there are times when something built according to code was considered acceptable decades ago, yet is unacceptable by modern standards.

This is where a little common sense comes in for us home inspectors. We have to consider the safety of the family moving into the home, while understanding that a home built 50 years ago is not going to meet modern codes in numerous ways.

Suggesting installation of GFCI outlets is a good example of a "safety enhancement" that can be recommended, but calling it a "defect" is truly over-board in my opinion.

Buyers need to understand that a seller is not going to rebuild an older house to meet every modern code.

But there are conditions that may have been acceptable when the home was built, and that condition is creating harm to the structure or poses a risk to the occupants. These are clearly defects.

I think Mike's post also eludes to a much bigger problem. More and more I see Realtors have Code Enforcement on speed dial. As soon as they get the report the make the call. This is probably one of the biggest mistakes a Realtor can make. The first thing you have done is put yourself in an untenable position as you have stepped out of the role as a Realtor and into the role of a home inspector, especially if you are a Transaction relationship.

Second, Code enforcement is not what we do, so why call them? Case in point; a home has an FPE panel installed. If you call Code Enforcement they will tell you it met code. Would you expect us to NOT mention it's presence? What about a deck constructed with the newer ACQ lumber and they use hard carbon bolts? What if a home has CSST and isn't bonded or no bond is visible? While all these may have met code at the time, they all present a clear and present danger to the occupant. The list could go on and on.

Bottom line is, as an agent you are not at the experience level of a home inspector and we don't conduct code inspections. The minute you provide a document to the buyer that states the falut noted in the report "meets code" and is ok, you have just issued an opinion, and a warranty. More importantly you may have influenced a client to forego a repair that cost them thier life or injury.

Never say never, just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it wont. Never rely on the fact something in the home hasn't  hurt anyone because I would add "YET" to the end of that sentance for you. The probablity is always there.

When it comes to electrical we all run into allot of head aches . I know that when You  have a 20 amp circut that has three wires attcahed to it  its not code .  But what I write is, this is unsafe ,. Have a lisc. electrician  evaluate  for safety and code for the area .  Some times I run into an agent that will argue the fact that it was code when the home was built . yes it was . but now they have computors more electronics . 5 kids to new additions and they are still being controled by a screw in 60 amp service . or centeral air new furnace . new GFCI  out lets  three prong plugs and are still using the old two wire with only 100 amps . . i made a mistake one time and told the client that the home he was buying was not worth buying because of all the defects found . Was told by an Agent that I am not an expert at value and Pricing  told you stick to Inspecting And  I will sell the home. so now I strongly recommend to my clients read the report go over the findings .and make your choice based upon the report and not my opionoun .   Its tough some times and we cant always please everyone . we will run into alot of disagreements . But as long as we report what we find and follow our standard of practice we as inspectors will be right and not wrong . God Bless have a great day . D L West Top To  Bottom Inspection Services