Jeff Pearl, Full Service Full Time Realtor (RE/MAX Distinctive / LIC in VA)

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Rainer
267,930
Ken Jones Commercial Real Estate
VRI Realty, Inc. - Metuchen, NJ
Industrial & Automotive Related Real Estate

Jeff Pearl HOAs are frequently operated by people who are both egotistical and ignorant of their responsibilities to their community.

I lived in one in Phoenix where a major portion of the flood drainage system suffered serious damage from a poor original design.

But, instead of the HOA board recognizing the problem and refusing to take responsibility for the board from the developer, they instead accepted the problem AND the responsibility to repair it.

The cost was unknown. But, I was told there were estimates in the 7 figures.

It was only at this point that the HOA turned back to the developer to correct the problem.

Having moved before all of this happened, I have no idea how it turned out.

However, those who live in an HOA property have no idea of the serious potential financial danger they live in.

HOAs do NOT have sovereign immunity.

Mar 08, 2018 04:54 AM
Rainmaker
653,448
Annette Lawrence , Palm Harbor, FL 727-420-4041
ReMax Realtec Group - Palm Harbor, FL
Making FLORIDA Real Estate EZ

I'm not an attorney. I don't play attorney on TV. All of us however live in the swamp infested with attorneys who advertise on Florida TV with messages like, "Have you fallen while in a store?" "Have you almost fell while in a business?"  "Have you THOUGHT about falling while in a franchise store?"

Based on what I've read in the news over the past 15 years in Florida....the outcome of this will lead to the change of home ownership in this community.

You are suggesting the HOA is NOT the homeowners.

And the answer is YES.

But, it is of interest to note, there are companies that are structured to rescue HOA/COmmunities in distress. It is a takeover in disguise.

Those HOA meetings are boring and distressful. The decisions made at these meetings do have consequences for everyone. Whether the liability comes from litigation, poor construction or even storm damage the buck stops on the front door of the homeowner.  The homeowner pays for EVERYTHING. Whether its a nuclear sub, school resource officer or Braille signage at the art gallery....the homeowner pays for it all.

However, a community under 3rd party management may have additional options.

Next weeks attorney ads will like communicate, 'Has your child ever been scraped, bug bit, bullied or fallen at the playground?" 

Mar 08, 2018 04:54 AM
Rainmaker
2,390,904
Nina Hollander
RE/MAX Executive | Charlotte, NC - Charlotte, NC
Your Charlotte/Ballantyne/Waxhaw/Fort Mill Realtor

That's a lawyer question for sure. And I suspect the answer might differ in various jurisidictions.

Mar 08, 2018 04:16 AM
Rainmaker
1,372,885
Lyn Sims
RE/MAX Suburban - Schaumburg, IL
Schaumburg IL Area Real Estate

Don't know this one, hope an attorney pops in to give an opinion.

I will say that HOA boards are unbelievably legally stupid on deciding things on behalf of others.

 

Mar 08, 2018 05:21 AM
Rainmaker
2,585,489
Kathleen Daniels
KD Realty - 408.972.1822 - San Jose, CA
San Jose Homes for Sale-Probate & Trust Specialist

I won't play attorney here. I've lived with an HOA for the past 30 years. Ignorance is no defense. Homeowners need to get involved and know what their board is doing and not doing.  Could a homeowner who sold be liable.  If they failed to disclose it they sure could be subject to a lawsuit from the new owners.  

I always always always get an HOA document review when representing clients with an HOA. 

Mar 08, 2018 07:32 AM
Rainmaker
3,726,468
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Napa Consultants - Carpinteria, CA
Luxury Real Estate Branding, Marketing & Strategy

Jeff,

I have no idea.  A

Mar 08, 2018 07:18 AM
Rainmaker
797,460
Thomas J. Nelson, Realtor, ePRO, CRS, RCS-D
Big Block Realty 858.232.8722 - La Jolla, CA
& Host of Postcards From Success Podcast

Lawyer, Lawyer, they need a lawyer.

Mar 08, 2018 06:44 AM
Rainmaker
1,325,862
Michael Setunsky
Woodbridge, VA
Your Commercial Real Estate Link to Northern VA

Jeff Pearl This is why it is so important to really read the Condo/HOA docs for any impending law suits or major repairs.

Mar 08, 2018 06:28 AM
Ambassador
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Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, Keller Williams fox cities - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

Foolish to entrust so much in these pseudo govt entities.

I stay far away from anything that is located in one.

Mar 08, 2018 05:57 AM
Rainmaker
595,662
Anthony Acosta - ALLATLANTACONDOS.COM
Harry Norman, REALTORS® - Atlanta, GA
Associate Broker

That's a great question for an attorney. 

Mar 08, 2018 05:02 AM
Ambassador
2,053,675
Fred Griffin
Fred Griffin Real Estate - Tallahassee, FL
Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker

  The ramifications of a ruling like that are staggering. 

Mar 08, 2018 04:26 AM
Rainmaker
3,522,756
Joan Cox
Metro Brokers - House to Home, Inc. - Denver Real Estate - 720-231-6373 - Denver, CO
Denver Real Estate - Selling One Home at a Time

Wow, maybe a good reason not to sit on a Board.

Mar 11, 2018 07:57 AM
Rainmaker
1,358,067
Mike Cooper
Cornerstone Business Group Inc - Winchester, VA
Your Winchester, VA Real Estate Sales Pro

Wow! That is stunning. I have no idea of the answer, but I look forward to reading the responses. 

Mar 09, 2018 09:03 AM
Rainmaker
2,648,021
Wayne Martin
Wayne M Martin - Chicago, IL
Real Estate Broker

Lawyer up if you are a current or recent past owner. So many issues. Use an expert!

Mar 09, 2018 04:59 AM
Rainmaker
1,346,789
Inna Ivchenko
Barcode Properties - Encino, CA
Realtor® • Green • GRI • HAFA • PSC Los Angeles CA

It is terrible... There are going to be a lot of properties for sale in that community...

Mar 08, 2018 11:22 PM
Ambassador
4,000,203
Praful Thakkar
LAER Realty Partners - Andover, MA
Andover, MA: Andover Luxury Homes For Sale

Not an expert here, @Jeff Pearl.

Checking other answers.

Mar 08, 2018 11:18 PM
Ambassador
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Debbie Reynolds
Platinum Properties - Clarksville, TN
Your Dedicated Clarksville TN Real Estate Agent

I think if it is court ordered you will see judgements on personal credit and liens posted against properties.

Mar 08, 2018 07:18 PM
Rainmaker
3,587,084
William Feela
WHISPERING PINES REALTY - North Branch, MN
Realtor, Whispering Pines Realty 651-674-5999 No.

Part of the reason I  not like HOAs

Mar 08, 2018 04:45 PM
Rainmaker
371,691
David Martin (703) 585-4687
Fairfax Realty - Fairfax, VA
Making Realty Dreams a Reality

I've seen HOAs as well as the property management companies try to do some incredibly STUPID things. 

One HOA through the Property Management company kept harassing me over the parking regulations. I was in complete compliance but they wanted to force me to do something that wasn't in the rules. They would come up with reason after reason. The final straw for me was when the agent at the PM office sent a letter saying that "Cement" didn't count as pavement in the parking lot 

I filed a lawsuit their attorney advised them to settle with me.

Mar 08, 2018 01:11 PM
Rainmaker
286,445
Lynnea Miller
Bend Premier Real Estate - Bend, OR
Premier Real Estate Service in Central Oregon

This would depend on the governing documents of the HOA and the laws in the state.

Mar 08, 2018 11:15 AM
Rainmaker
860,449
Kevin J. May
Florida Supreme Realty - Hobe Sound, FL
Serving the Treasure & Paradise Coasts of Florida

Yes, they can be held liable and in this instance they are. Pretty cut & dry from what I saw.

Mar 08, 2018 10:37 AM
Rainmaker
4,265,170
Barbara Todaro
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Franklin, MA
"Franklin MA Homes"

why are homeowners being held liable... what's the role of the HOA.... crazy stuff...

Mar 08, 2018 10:29 AM
Rainmaker
1,068,581
Ryan Huggins - Thousand Oaks, CA
www.HugginsHomes.com - Thousand Oaks, CA
Residential Real Estate and Investment Properties

Youch!  I hope this gets fought and the home owners can be saved.  Otherwise, many will probably have to sell to have any hope of paying this off.  Or maybe everyone sues the HOA of 100k each.

Mar 08, 2018 10:21 AM
Ambassador
800,227
John Meussner
Mason-McDuffie Mortgage, Conventional Loans, Jumbo Loans, FHA, 203(k), USDA, VA, - Walnut Creek, CA
#MortgageMadeEasy Walnut Creek, CA 484-680-4852

That's absurd.  An HOA has the responsibility for that.  The association, not the home owners.  The board should be on the hook, specifically those who made the concious decision to not maintain the property.

Mar 08, 2018 09:55 AM
Rainmaker
529,345
John Juarez
The Medford Real Estate Team - Fremont, CA
ePRO, SRES, GRI, PMN

It may take more legal action to determine the answers to your questions.

Mar 08, 2018 08:50 AM
Rainmaker
4,603,805
Roy Kelley
Realty Group Referrals - Gaithersburg, MD
Roy and Dolores Kelley Photographs

Wow!  A major legal challenge.

Mar 08, 2018 08:38 AM
Rainmaker
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Michael Jacobs
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Pasadena, CA
Los Angeles Pasadena Area Real Estate 818.516.4393

Yikes!

 

Mar 08, 2018 08:02 AM
Rainmaker
929,537
Corinne Guest
Barrington Realty Company - Barrington, IL
The Choice of Professionals for Luxury Home Buying

I first read this as $8k, then came back and realizes  I was 10 fold under. It's insane! I have questions but need to read the article first, but WOW!

Mar 08, 2018 07:44 AM
Ambassador
3,583,157
Jeff Dowler, CRS
Solutions Real Estate - Carlsbad, CA
The Southern California Relocation Dude - Carlsbad

I have no idea. That's an attorney opinion I think.

Mar 08, 2018 07:39 AM
Rainmaker
1,215,215
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Alliance Real Estate - Minot - Minot, ND
Bob Timm, Broker Associate, Alliance Real Estate

WOW, what a scary situation Jeff Pearl . I've often thought about condo living when I retire but this sounds like a real good reason to avoid it.

Mar 08, 2018 07:23 AM
Rainmaker
2,268,229
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

Litigation will answer your question as well as the costs for same

Mar 08, 2018 07:20 AM
Rainer
67,732
Shawn and Angela Miller
Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Amabassador Real Estate - Lincoln, NE
Lincoln and Omaha, NE REALTORS®

Wow, that video really gives you something to think about.  Wonder if the individual homeowners insurance will cover it for them?  I have a umbrella policy.  Good questions to ask your insurance agent!

Mar 08, 2018 06:51 AM
Rainmaker
2,638,949
Scott Godzyk
Godzyk Real Estate Services - Manchester, NH
One of Manchester NH's Leading Agents

It is why a HOA should have insurance for such. I think it woudl depend on state law in that state.

Mar 08, 2018 06:48 AM
Rainmaker
732,227
Jennifer Mackay
Counts Real Estate Group, Inc. - Panama City, FL
Your Bay County Florida Realtor 850.774.6582

I would have moved long before it went to court - not surprising however, a jury placed blame on the wrong entity

Mar 08, 2018 06:44 AM
Rainmaker
4,251,042
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

Yes, I think they can be responsible.  They are the HOA.

Mar 08, 2018 06:30 AM
Rainmaker
532,226
Gloria Valvasori, Accredited Senior Agent
BETTER HOMES AND GARDENS REAL ESTATE SIGNATURE SERVICE - Mississauga, ON
REAL Experience | REAL Commitment | REAL Results!

If the Board was told on several occasions there were problems, and it needed maintenance, then I think the Board should be liable for neglect.  They were aware of the potential danger and did nothing about it.   But like many other, I'm not a lawyer so the outcome would be interesting to know.

Mar 08, 2018 05:54 AM
Rainmaker
3,999,083
Gita Bantwal
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel

Legal question. 

Mar 08, 2018 05:50 AM
Rainmaker
601,932
Richard Bazinet /MBA, CRS, ABR
AZuRE Team - Realty ONE Group - Scottsdale, AZ
Phoenix Scottsdale. Sellers, Buyers & Relocations

Whowzy! That's staggering.

Mar 08, 2018 05:40 AM
Rainmaker
2,929,072
Tony and Suzanne Marriott, Associate Brokers
BVO Luxury Group @ Keller Williams Arizona Realty - Scottsdale, AZ
Serving Scottsdale, Phoenix and Maricopa County AZ

Will be interesting to see how this plays out...

Mar 08, 2018 05:33 AM
Ambassador
1,364,071
Joe Pryor
The Virtual Real Estate Team - Oklahoma City, OK
REALTOR® - Oklahoma Investment Properties

That is a legal opinion we can't render.

Mar 08, 2018 05:32 AM
Rainmaker
666,434
Olga Simoncelli
Veritas Prime, LLC dba Veritas Prime Real Estate - New Fairfield, CT
CONSULTANT, Real Estate Services & Risk Management

The payment has not been imposed yet, but theoretically it's possible. Safety first is a serious issue that should not be ignored. HOA residents should insist on it via their elected boards and be aware of what's going on in terms of inspections, maintenance, etc.

Mar 08, 2018 04:54 AM
Rainmaker
2,455,005
Richard Weeks
Dallas, TX
REALTOR®, Broker

I doubt they will ever collect one penny.

Mar 08, 2018 04:41 AM
Rainmaker
1,485,709
Sybil Campbell
Long and Foster REALTORS® 5234 Monticello Ave Williamsburg, Virginia - Williamsburg, VA
REALTOR® ABR, SFR, SRES Williamsburg, Virginia

That seems out of line that homeowners would be held responsible for the decisions made by the HOA board without their knowledge. I don't now what the covenants and restrictions state for that HOA, so I have no idea if this can be enforced. I think it would be hard to collect the money from all of the homeowners.  In my opinion, at the very least the homeowners should join together and hire a good attorney!

Mar 08, 2018 04:32 AM