Lyn Sims, Schaumburg IL Real Estate (RE/MAX Suburban)

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Rainmaker
3,178,658
Nina Hollander
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Charlotte, NC
Your Charlotte/Ballantyne/Waxhaw/Fort Mill Realtor

This does not surprise me with respect to working for a builder... those agents live under the structure of significant employment rules... from work hours, vacation times, etc.

Sep 19, 2019 07:23 AM
Rainmaker
1,257,382
Ryan Huggins - Thousand Oaks, CA
https://HugginsHomes.com - Thousand Oaks, CA
Residential Real Estate and Investment Properties

These just got ironed out in California.  New law passed for "gig workers" that exempted realtors, insurance agents, stock brokers and deep sea fishermen from employee status.  Out here new homes sales agents are employees of the builders.

Sep 19, 2019 12:28 PM
Rainmaker
5,085,886
Barbara Todaro
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Franklin, MA
Marketing Agent for The Todaro Team

 I can't even relate to the set up of having a draw or getting an advance in commission!!!!  I had the listing....did the marketing and the coverage was on a schedule I created.... friday, sat and sun afternoons..... 1 to 4.... that's it!!! 

I had other business and other builders who were at different stages of construction, so my income was a steady flow.... everyone had attorneys for p& s agreements....the builders atty handled all of the legal end.... my job was to walk the buyers throught the process until all selections were made and finalized.... they didn't communicate with me during construction unless there was no on-site supervisor.....

there's no way I covered any project every day, all day..... lockboxes were used and I would accompany if the buyer agent wanted me to do that.... they usually did......

Sep 19, 2019 08:54 AM
Rainer
58,315
Ken Jones
Realty ONE Group Central - Commercial - Freehold, NJ
There's no substitute for Experience.

 Lyn Sims First and foremost is the indisputable fact that the I.R.S. does NOT classify real estate agents as "independent contractors."

The I.R.S. classified real estate agents as "non-employees," a special category only for real estate agents due to their legal licensing requirement to work "under the direction" of an employing broker.

All that said, unlike agents working for traditional brokerage firms who are free to come and go as they wish, agents who work for builders are REQUIRED to be in a specific place (the sales office) at specific times which tends to support the concept of being an EMPLOYEE.

Even putting all of this aside, based on a number of recent federal court decisions and other federal lawsuits that are pending, it's far more likely than not that ALL real estate agents will eventually be classified as EMPLOYEES within a few years.

Sep 19, 2019 08:24 AM
Rainmaker
2,811,310
Kathleen Daniels
KD Realty - 408.972.1822 - San Jose, CA
San Jose Homes for Sale-Probate & Trust Specialist

The people that work for builders tend to lean more on the employee side of the equation. 

Sep 19, 2019 07:59 AM
Rainmaker
3,395,156
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
Los Angeles Pasadena 818.516.4393

Interesting.  In many ways.  

Sep 19, 2019 07:56 AM
Rainmaker
937,880
Thomas J. Nelson, Realtor e-Pro, CRS, RCS-D, Vets
Big Block Realty 858.232.8722 - La Jolla, CA
& Host of Postcards From Success Podcast

Coldwell Banker had a similar lawsuit about 5 years ago while I was still with them; the independent contractor model is rapidly changing with the new laws and old school employers are caught in the crossfire if they do not adapt.

Sep 19, 2019 07:12 AM
Rainmaker
1,653,780
Evelina Tsigelnitskaya
SIB Realty - Sunny Isles Beach, FL
www.SIBRealty.org 305-931-6931

Just read the article. 

Well, most of the agents are happy to work for developer's offices. They knew what they are getting. BUYERS! And prospective sellers and landlords. 

 

Sep 19, 2019 11:17 AM
Rainmaker
1,221,750
Valeria Mola
SIB Realty - Miami, Sunny Isles Beach - Sunny Isles Beach, FL
305-607-0709 SIB Realty

When they get real customers and commissions - great. 

When they project is canceled - lawsuit - hard to return advance commission.

Sep 19, 2019 10:12 AM
Ambassador
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Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, Keller Williams Fox Cities - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

Business in our country would be much better it the govt would stop hampering out ability to hire good talent by forcing employers to overpay those with little talent.

Sep 19, 2019 09:25 AM
Rainmaker
4,537,438
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Napa Consultants - Carpinteria, CA
Luxury Real Estate Branding, Marketing & Strategy

Lyn,

Definitely an interesting read.  Thank you.  A

Sep 19, 2019 09:18 AM
Ambassador
2,234,729
Wanda Kubat-Nerdin - Wanda Can!
Prado Real Estate South - St. George, UT
So Utah Residential, Referral & Relocation REALTOR

No one made her stay or held her there because she is/was an independent contractor, just like on-site real estate salespeople in builder communities. They are required to attend sales meetings, stay in one place during business hours and are compensated when a contract is written...hmmmm, interesting indeed!

Sep 19, 2019 08:26 AM
Rainmaker
3,101,509
Richard Weeks
Dallas, TX
REALTOR®, Broker

Interesting, thanks for the heads up.

Sep 19, 2019 08:03 AM
Rainmaker
1,842,864
Michael J. Perry
KW Elite - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster, PA Relo Specialist

Hard to imagine the Employee Model in Real Estate

Sep 19, 2019 07:46 AM
Rainmaker
776,703
Annette Lawrence , Palm Harbor, FL 727-420-4041
ReMax Realtec Group - Palm Harbor, FL
Making FLORIDA Real Estate EZ

In the example cited, it must be noted that a real estate sales license is not required to work in a builders sales center. Using the real estate agent identifier is misleading.

However, the independent contractor status has been severely abused most notably by 'white column' old school real estate franchises.

ALL of them benefit by avoiding the need to invest in their 'employees.' It may be too late for brokers and franchises to confess and repent. We, as agents, should be prepared to reposition how they execute real estate transactions. And is most likely to be in the role of a BROKER.

Now, when days, hours, location, job tasks, wages are dictated...that person is an EMPLOYEE! Clearly a sales agent locked into a showing center with office duties and inflexible compensation is an employee. 

By the way, this is also what Uber is imposing on drivers which is what inspired the CALIF lawsuit.

Sep 19, 2019 07:37 AM
Rainmaker
5,467,210
Roy Kelley
Realty Group Referrals - Gaithersburg, MD
Thanks for the link.
Sep 19, 2019 12:11 PM
Rainmaker
2,476,166
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

The line has long been fine between these two. One day one will win-out

Sep 19, 2019 09:35 AM
Rainmaker
450,278
Tom Bailey
Margaret Rudd & Associates Inc. - Oak Island, NC

Interesting article! I am not surprised with in house agents fora builder, they unlike the rest of us are very restricted! 

Sep 21, 2019 02:45 PM
Rainmaker
3,342,082
Wayne Martin
Wayne M Martin - Chicago, IL
Real Estate Broker - Retired

It is hard to argue that an agent working for a large builder is not an employee. They dictate the hours and the method of selling in many cases, including mandatory in-house training.

Sep 20, 2019 04:42 AM
Rainmaker
1,639,593
Bob "RealMan" Timm
Ward County Notary Services - Minot, ND
Owner of Ward Co. Notary Services, retired Realtor

This would have applied to me BIG TIME but thank goodness I no longer need to know as I'm retired Lyn Sims 

Sep 19, 2019 11:29 AM
Rainmaker
4,136,234
Joan Cox
House to Home, Inc. - Denver Real Estate - 720-231-6373 - Denver, CO
Denver Real Estate - Selling One Home at a Time

The very reason I would prefer to stay a REALTOR, and not work for a builder.

Oct 07, 2019 04:00 PM
Rainmaker
706,120
John Juarez
The Medford Real Estate Team - Fremont, CA
ePRO, SRES, GRI, PMN

Did not read the article because California is wrestling with the same issues. So far, real estate agents with a broker relationship are still independent contractors. Who knows what the future holds. Many brokers would go out of business if they had to provide "employee benefits", in my opinion.

Sep 23, 2019 05:08 PM
Rainmaker
1,030,383
Sam Shueh
(408) 425-1601 - San Jose, CA
mba, cdpe, reopro, pe

THanks

Sep 20, 2019 01:56 PM
Rainmaker
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Mel Ahrens, MBA, Kelly Right Real Estate
Kelly Right Real Estate - Hood River, OR
Customized Choices for your Real Estate Needs

 It does not sound like they were able to set their schedule or determine how they wanted to perform their duties to meet the end goal. Interesting the prior case was settled out of court. 

Sep 20, 2019 12:13 PM
Rainmaker
1,555,364
Sandy Padula and Norm Padula, JD, GRI
HomeSmart Realty West & Geneva Financial, Llc. - Carlsbad, CA
Presence, Persistence & Perseverance

Thanks, Lyn Sims !

Sep 19, 2019 02:17 PM