Special offer

How Not To Support A Deck

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

This "GORGEOUS INSIDE AND OUT!" house is a flip and the seller has stated firmly that he had "done so much to the house [he] won't fix anything found on the home inspection."  To me, that's like painting yourself into a corner.  DO YOU WANT TO SELL THE HOUSE?  But I digress.

There were a few things I had to mention to my clients!  Well, many "few!"  For example, this post shows one example of how not to support a deck.

On this house, the flipper retained the original posts, joists and ledger beam (the board attached to the house) and added the rest in new lumber.  That's usually a huge mistake.  Codes and requirement change!

Depending on where you live, there are various ways that local jurisdictional authorities want to see decks founded.

The two most important things that create structure for a deck are (1) how the posts are founded and (2) the deck's attachment to the house.  Codes on both of those things, everywhere I know anyway, are very specific.  AND CHANGE ALL THE TIME!

In my county, where this house is located, either the far left on the left diagram or the third from the left on the above diagram is approved.  My decks, for which I pulled a county permit to construct, are founded like the latter.

The bottom of the hole must be 24" deep and the posts no smaller than 6x6", pressure treated for ground contact.  There is no deviation allowed for either of those things.

I can assure you that when the bottom of a post is damaged or rotting and has to be replaced, that this is NOT an appropriate way to do it!

Can you see how the post is resting on a piece of 2x6" plank, which apparently began sinking.

So, what to do about the sinking?

Do you see the creative addition below?  Yes, that is apparently an aid.  Remember, this flipper said he has done enough and will do no more to this house!

Here is his solution to the sinking! Yep, it's nailed too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While impressively strong, HAD THIS FLIPPER BOTHERED TO GET A PERMIT FOR ANYTHING THAT HE DID TO THIS HOUSE, this may not have slipped by the county's attention.

There were so many things on this deck that are incorrect I won't bother to mention them all.

Suffice it to say that I would not go up the staircase off photo to the left...

 

My recommendation:  my clients, and their agent, had been all around the outside of this house twice before making their offer.  This was never noticed!  You might want to consider getting a home inspector even when the house is advertised as "gorgeous inside and out."  Just a thought...

 

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments(34)

Debbie Gartner
The Flooring Girl - White Plains, NY
The Flooring Girl & Blog Stylist -Dynamo Marketers

Oh no, I can't believe that.  It's quite funny and sad at the same time.  I guess if he won't do any more work, he'll need to reduce the price so they can get a new deck.

Apr 15, 2011 09:00 AM
Steven L. Smith
King of the House Home Inspection, Inc. - Bellingham, WA
Bellingham WA Home Inspector

Jay,

I think that we inspectors agree that bad decks are a really common problem all over. The code guys put their blinders on I think.

Apr 15, 2011 11:25 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Mike - this was one of a hundred things on this report.  He will have to get realistic if he wants to ever sell this house.

John - like I said to Mike above, he is unrealistic if he hopes to sell this house in this condition.

Bob - so I get a sense that you are playing with a word?

Lydie - that would be a good idea, but not done very often around here!

Bliz - I had that discussion with my client today as we stood under a deck very inadequately attached to the house!

Apr 15, 2011 12:07 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Robert - with so much info out there, even the DIY sites, you'd think a few guys would get it right.

Steve - and that may not have been a very long wait!  I wouldn't go up the stairs - the stringers were all three toe nailed from the bottom at the top of each stringer.

Yes, Debbie, but he would have to lower the price also for a bunch, and I mean a BUNCH, of other things too!

No code guy here Steve.  But there were a dozen things on this deck that would have failed if there had been one!

Apr 15, 2011 12:11 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

I had a house a few weeks back that was gorgeous inside and out. Not a permit pulled for any of the work. Do you think I found problems?

Apr 15, 2011 12:55 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Well, let's see.  Is the word gorgeous a dead give away?  Jim, I'm getting to the point where if it's a flip I want to charge an additional $100 for the time factor involved!

Apr 15, 2011 12:59 PM
Eric Middleton
Closer Look Property Inspections Inc. - Uniondale, NY
Professional Property Inspector

Hey Jay,

Look on the bright side, the flippers keep us busy, very busy.

Apr 15, 2011 03:55 PM
Jim Mushinsky
Centsable Inspection - Framingham, MA

From an engineering perspective, attaching the deck to the house for structural support is destined for failure from the inherent stress delta of supporting half the deck with posts exposed to the ambient weather and the other half encased within the thermal envelope of the building.  The dimensional expansion/contraction changes from temperature and moisture will tear that deck apart.  Its no mystery why there are so many deck collapses every year.

Home owners should get their deck inspected annually, even if it is built to code.  The code allows for significant wear. 

Most State and Professional Organization Home Inspector Standards of Practice include a definition for "Safety" which is dependent upon the opinion of the inspector. 

In addition to the wonderful points you made, in my opinion, the most significant is the "safety" opinion from the home inspector.

Apr 15, 2011 04:06 PM
Jeremy Wrenn
Winslow Homes - Youngsville, NC
VP of Finance, Winslow Homes

So sounds like "Flipper" didn't necessarily know what he was doing, or talking about.  You keep mentioning "other" repairs like this not even on the deck.

Yipes!

Apr 15, 2011 05:35 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Eric - that they do.  And the fact that mortgage foreclosures are the highest since Carter!  Well, actually higher!

Fer sher Jim!  Safety is one of our biggest worries and should be prominent in a home inspection.  They changed the codes here in 2002 to require ledgers to be attached every 8" with through bolts, in a W pattern, with a build-up of the rim joist from the inside with an additional pressure-treated two by...  No more lags.  Since then, not one of those has collapsed or come off the wall.

There were a bunch Jeremy.  They will be sprinkled about in the next few posts.  I will have to make them sound unique because all coming from one place can seem boring!  The blog fodder from my last two flips (2 in 2 days) can take up a couple of weeks.

Apr 15, 2011 10:30 PM
Patricia Kennedy
RLAH@properties - Washington, DC
Home in the Capital

Jay, I think that even I would have noticed that one!  And you're right.  I'm gorgeous inside and out is an invitation!  I'm wondering what other blog fodder you found in this place.

Apr 16, 2011 01:56 AM
Vince Santos
StepByStep Home Services LC - Canton, MI
Southeast Michigan Home Inspector

The things flippers will try to get away with..sheesh.

Apr 16, 2011 07:21 AM
Steven L. Smith
King of the House Home Inspection, Inc. - Bellingham, WA
Bellingham WA Home Inspector

Jay,

I saw the comment above and, while not wild about flippers, most decks I see that are messed up are done by legit contactors with code inspectors looking the other way.

Apr 16, 2011 12:47 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Truth be told, Pat, many posts worth!

Vince - I wonder if they is the scourge nationwide that they are here?

True, Steve, but no inspector looked at this one before I did!  They pulled no permits.  My clients ran from the place when their repair addendum, including a request to see permits, was rejected.  The realtor emailed me today to say that the flipper put the house back on the market for $15K more!

Apr 16, 2011 03:44 PM
Steve Hoffacker
Steve Hoffacker LLC - West Palm Beach, FL
Certified Aging In Place Specialist-Instructor

Jay,

Congratulations. This post is now featured on "The Law Of The Land." :)

Steve

Apr 18, 2011 05:38 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thank you Steve!  Interestingly, this flipper rejected the amendment to the sales contract my clients submitted and took the house off the market.  Then, after the prescribed time, put it back on the market as if it was newly there, for $15K more money!

Apr 18, 2011 11:16 PM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

No no no,  Please say it ain't so.  That's one nasty 'repair' job.

Apr 25, 2011 02:52 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Ain't that a cute little baby Reubs?  And the stairs were so frightful, each stringer toe nailed at the end directly from the bottom with one nail (!), that I wouldn't go up them!

Apr 25, 2011 11:49 PM
Sally K. & David L. Hanson
EXP Realty 414-525-0563 - Brookfield, WI
WI Real Estate Agents - Luxury - Divorce

In our little corner of the world...the city inspector won't be allowing you to put that post in the hole without several inspections....and while the DIY folks of the world may find this annoying....better safe than sorry !

Apr 26, 2011 11:53 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Well, S&D, they won't here either.  Why would this Flipper call the county inspector!?

Apr 27, 2011 12:14 AM