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If You Own A Point2 Site..READ THIS!

By
Real Estate Agent with Exit Realty Optimum

I have had a Point2 Agent Professional site now for about 2 or 3 years. At the time, I was using a Craig Proctors Success Web Site at almost $200.00 a month. That in my eyes, was a complete waste of time and money. I was spending more time trying to optimize my site, though their Marketing Plan, which was very good, but it almost felt like I was part of an Affiliate program.

Their SEO, page optimization, was very slack. Basically, they told me, that to gain popularity in the search engines, I would have to do it on my own, and for someone who, at the time, knew nothing about SEO, it was a challenge. I was really starting to question my purchase, but I signed a contract, so I had to learn SEO, and fast, if I had any hope of ranking well. Now, I know that a Point2 site comes loaded with some page optimization already in place, but still requires a lot of work to rank well.

So over the last 14 months, I have been trying on my own, to learn SEO, so I could understand better, what I was doing and not doing right. I read some where about Goole alerts, and how powerful this is for any topic. So I set up a bunch of alerts, SEO TOOLS, ADD URL, SUBMIT SITE, REAL ESTATE DIRECTORIES, BACK LINKS, SEARCH ENGINE TOOLS, +FREE+ADD+URL+REAL+ESTATE, REAL ESTATE ADD URL etc.. These alerts basically showed me all the how's and what I should be doing to optimize my site. The only thing wrong with these alerts, is don't do too many at first, because you will be spending a big part of your day, reading emails. But, I put the time in, read almost every alert, and now I rank #1 In my Province for State Rank, #1 for Country Rank, #1 for World Rank. Bgpic01062007123208_l

Now, I am by no means an expert at SEO, but from what I learned has helped me immensely in my plight to rank well, and it worked. The only problem is staying there, but that is for another post. So I have great ranking at Point2 Web Sites, all looks good, but I found out some real problems with my Point2 site. It is a page rank issue. Did you know that out of over 200,000 sites, there are only a few that have a higher page rank than #3. Now, before you all jump on the page rank issue, I know that it is becoming less and less important, content is the key of course, but with all my work, having almost 4000 inbound links, I cannot get passed page rank #3.

I have submitted articles, directories, search engines, you name it, my name is every where, but this is a point2 issue. Did you know that the average Point2 site has over 400 errors in the coding, mine has over 550 errors, and that's alright? I asked Point2 about this issue, and they basically told me it is not a problem, she told me that Google has 10 errors, that amazon has 24 errors, and they do fine...are you kidding me, I am no Google, a few errors will never affect their position, but for a small site like mine, it will, to some degree. There is a problem with header tags, images, HTML code, and obviously on page optimization.

Is Point2 going to do any thing about this..NO. I sometimes think Point2 is more concerned about thier own ranking than ours. Oh, and get this, I forgot to make a payment in December, totally my fault, but they downgraded me to a Standard site, if you look now at my site it is a mess, I have not had the time yet to fix it. They wouldn't even give me a break, though I have been a Customer for over 2 years, and never missed a payment..oh well. my problem. I will stay with the Standard site for now, since the professional, might have more features,but, it is not going to help me with popularity.

So, my point is, if you own a Point2 site, get your keywords exact, submit unique content, and always try to gain in bound links every day. But, you will never rank over a p3...no matter how popular you site is.

I have acieved my goals, by getting on the first page of Goole, Yahoo, and MSN. and you can too...it's just a lot of work. And I did this by not spending a dime. You can learn too, because don't rely on the size of Point2 to help you rank, it's all up to you.

PS..I am now searching for a new site, any ideas would help.

Thanks for taking the time to read...Joey Ross

 

 

Connie Harvey
Pilkerton Realtors - Brentwood, TN
Realtor - Nashville TN Real Estate

Joey - I have my site hosted by Homes.com. Today we set up a meeting to upgrade it and optimize the SEO. I have hesitated to do a point2 site. Do you think it's still worth it?

Jan 13, 2009 08:49 AM
Joey Ross
Exit Realty Optimum - Halifax, NS

Hi Connie, A Point2 site is great for those who chose to do little or no SEO, just because it is so popular with search engines..but that of course will only go so far. The real reason I am leaving Point2, was because of their lack of support over this issue, at first when I brought this to thier attention, they acted is if they had no idea what I was talking about, until I gave them proof...can you imagine that. Anyway, I do not think they have our best interests in mind.

I would really recommend staying with a more professional Domain, like Homes.com. Just make sure you have full control over the site, like ftp access, but let the pros do the SEO, it's a lot of work.

I never intended to become a WebMaster...takes too much time, we are supposed to be selling Real Estate, not get a course in SEO. But done right, and you will get a lot of leads on your site..I get around 500 unique visitors a day, which usually gives me about 30-40 leads a month. But converting them is always a problem, I convert only about 10%..not bad though.

Hope this helps,

Joey Ross

Jan 13, 2009 11:09 AM
Suzanne Stephens
Stephens Design - Battle Ground, WA
Real Estate Website Design

Joey, these statements are simply not true:

"you will never rank over a p3...no matter how popular you site is"

"A Point2 site is great for those who chose to do little or no SEO, just because it is so popular with search engines"

A Point2 site will not do well with no SEO, especially if it is a fairly new site. Old sites gain some advantage because of the age of their domain names, but it takes a lot of work to get a Point2 site to rank well in Google SERPs. I have several clients whose sites are on page 1 of Google for their main keyphrases, but they did not get there by accident.

As you mentioned in a contradictory statement, there ARE a handful of Point2 sites with PR4. A year or so ago in one of its periodic algorithm updates, Google downgraded lots of sites. One of my client's sites, for example, was downgraded from PR4 to PR3. However, the site is still in #1 position for her primary keyphrase and for hundreds of other keyphrases. That #1 position is all that really matters. A PR4 ranking would have absolutely no impact on her site traffic, because you simply can't get better than #1 position on Google. So what's the big deal about PR4?

Also, I don't understand why you showed an image of your Point2 Performance Index ranking. There is absolutely no relationship between Point2's Performance Index and SEO. The Performance Index is only a measure of how well members are using Point2's tools and was never intended to relate to SEO.

Point2 sites were first developed ten or so years ago, when it was easy for any type of site to get good search results. Now, however, search engine positioning is very competitive, so professional help with SEO is often necessary for agents who don't want to spend time doing their own SEO work.

Jan 14, 2009 04:19 AM
Joey Ross
Exit Realty Optimum - Halifax, NS

Hello Suzanne,

We have had this discussion before, and you still have not addressed the errors problem. I will keep trying with a new provider to rank higher than a P3. Are you telling me that hardly any web site, will never reach a rank of 3, or just Point2 Sites.

And, you are right about the P4 rank on only a HANDFUL of your Point2 sites. One particular site you mentioned is a P4, but has been around for over 15 years. You mentioned that you have some sites that are on page one of google for their targeted keywords, well, big deal, so am I, but that relates to any site out there, with the right keywords, and a proper mix of SEO, but that does not address my concerns. 

You made a point in a previous post to me, that you have over 200,000 Point2 Sites, correcting the number of 100,000 sites I quoted, but with that many sites, why do only a HANDFUL, rank over 3. I think this is just a common sense question, that any SEO consultants would ask.Also, let us not forget that Point2 is a Template based site, which in an article I read on Google's Official Blog, Matt Cutts, explained how most template sites do not rank well on Google...so maybe that's the reason

I know plenty Real Estate sites that have ranks of 3,4,5,6...this is what I am trying to achive, are you saying those sites that have a higher page rank, mean nothing to the serps, search engines, and resale value?

If you believe that a page rank does not matter, then why the reply, and you never answered my issue with all the errors on your sites, are you ever going to?

At any rate, you have to promote Point2 sites, since this is you position, and totally understand your remarks, but until I get some real answers about the errors issue, I will continue to voice MY opinion, and it is, by the way, only my opinion, which really means nothing to Point2.

I have done a lot of reasearch on this, and since I have a Point2 site, it matters to me. If you are telling me to move on, and stop crying about this issue, and others that you have not answered, so be it.

Thank You Suzanne for your comments, and I am sure we will talk again.

Cheers..Joey Ross

Jan 14, 2009 11:44 AM
Suzanne Stephens
Stephens Design - Battle Ground, WA
Real Estate Website Design

Joey, I don't have over 200,000 Point2 sites. I don't work for Point2 and I have no responsibility for fixing any supposed errors on their system's sites. They are not my sites and so, no, I cannot and will not attempt to address fixing errors. I don't have to promote Point2Agent sites, but, with ten years in real estate site design, I choose to design on top of Point2Agent's sites because I feel that it offers the most custom design capability of any template site.

I disagree that Google toolbar page rank is important. Google does have a closely held, secret ranking system, but it is not the same as toolbar PR. 

If a PR3 Point2Agent site ranks #1 on page 1 of Google for its primary keyphrases as well as for hundreds of other keyphrases, then how would a PR4 help it? Could it somehow get higher than #1 on Google? For example, Google "st john's NL real estate". LarryHann.com, a PR3 Point2 site, will come up #1. Is Larry complaining about his PR3? No. Google "daphne al real estate" and Barbara Reeves' two Point2 sites will come up #1 and #3. Is Barbara complaining because her sites are only PR3? No. JoeJanus.com, a PR2 site, comes up #5 on Google for "Phoenix homes for sale" and gets over 100 visitors a day, in spite of being a fairly young site in the single most competitive metro search market in the U.S. Joe is not complaining about his PR2 either.

Yes, some template sites are bad for SEO. Point2 sites are not in that category.

 

 

Jan 14, 2009 01:39 PM
Joey Ross
Exit Realty Optimum - Halifax, NS

Thanks for your comments, we will end it there, you can't answer my concerns, and either will Point2.

I will, in the future, leave my comments about point2 elsewhere, thanks for you help.

Jan 14, 2009 01:48 PM
Kevin Vitali
EXIT Realty Beatrice Associates - Middleton, MA
Helping Massachusetts Home Buyers and Home Sellers

I know in my area it is almost impossible for a real estate site to rank over 3.... too much competition.

Jan 15, 2009 12:34 AM
Laura Monroe
Inman News - San Francisco, CA
Dir. of Industry Engagement & Social Media

Hi Joey~ I work with Point 2 all the time, and I would have to say all in all you get quite a bit for a Professional site, but I still think (aside from getting Suzanne to re-design it for you) it is still a beginner's site or even an add on site.

Its just not hard these days to get a non-template site or get a website on an open source platform like Wordpress and have a much better chance at pulling a higher page rank. But, I've heard Google PR is going by the wayside now so I would worry more about placement, not PR..

If you are interested in another site platform take a look at Dakno Marketing They are great friends and have great sites. (They blog on AR as well)

Jan 15, 2009 11:01 AM
Crystal Curran
REVAville | CCE - Garland, UT
Executive Virtual Business Management | PREVA

Hi Joey,  I guess it is all about if you have "grown out" of or away from the service Point2 provides.  I have found, much like Laura, usually Point2 sites can be an "add on" site and may not be the be-all end all site some realtors prefer.  That being said, there is a "flavor" for about any kind of taste (or money you want to pay) for any realtor regarding real estate specific sites.

But then there is the problem with templated sites (most all "turn-key" solutions are) and still you will not be happy with the end product because either they will not allow you flexability within the templates - and sometimes not with SEO, but also in design.

Having worked in several different RE specific platforms (Advanced Access, Point2Agent, Z57, Sizzling Studios, Homes.com, #1 Expert, Top Producer and on and on) there are benefits and pitfalls regarding each.  Some with SEO, some with design, some with being able to understand how to even add a page ;-).

Laura and Suzanne are correct when stating PR is going to be fazed out by Google, I however think you may be ready for a change and moving you site may be exactly what you need (especially since you have done an awesome job at your SEO in do diligence and implementation!).

Laura suggested Dakno Marketing and I HIGHLY agree.  But then again, perhaps a Wordpress Website would be a great advantage for you.  It all depends on where you really want to go with your site.

What I would suggest is taking a poll of some of the very wonderful Virtual Assistants on Active Rain and see what they would suggest.  Or perhaps you can give a couple of them a call and see who could help you both in the decision of a new place to move your site to or to help make the decision and then actually move it for you.  There are many who will help both ways (even with a custom site) and then there are also great website specific companies who will do it all for you (like Dakno) and you will be amazed at the result.

Just thought I would give you a few more choices on where I view you are rather than just commenting on the PR issue.  Hope in some small way, I have helped ;-).

Jan 19, 2009 06:28 AM
Joey Ross
Exit Realty Optimum - Halifax, NS

WOW, what a breath of fresh air. Suggestions vs arguments, this is the way it should be. I also agree with you concerning page rank, I read Googles Blog, so as to stay on top of the changing landscape of SEO, according to Google.

I Have spent a lot of time optimizing my site, and really want my web page to in the BIG time. I just have to find out what new platform will help me get the results I need to reach this level. My main question concerning page rank on a point2 site, was just that, can I achieve higher page rank with a template site. But all the comments I received, did not answer my question, also, no one will touch the errors problem on Point2 sites. They tell me it does not matter, well I know better, and I felt Suzanne, was aggressively trying to prove me wrong...but at the end of the day, I must realize that a Point2 site, really is just a starter site, for many who what the pre-built template, and I think that is great, but in terms of growth, we are really restricted with this platform.

Your suggestions are really appreciated, and I will look into researching new solutions to my issues, as you have suggested. I will be back in touch, and hopefully, can get your feedback on my discoveries.

Again, thank you for you comment, greatly appreciated.

Joey Ross

Jan 19, 2009 07:29 AM