Special offer

Am I Allowed To Pee?

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408

After half day of showing we have a winner, and we are ready to right an offer. I usually call Listing agent before writing the offer, as devil is in the details.

Yes, the agent is thrilled but... this 2 bdr/2 bath condo is listed at $63K. Not a short sale. It is in the trust name. Trustee is out of state, and family members are out of state, not much interest in this property, want to sell.When I am allowed to pee?

However, the Board of Director for the Association tell agents that they would not allow any sale if the price is less than $75K. Why? Because they are trying to protect the values… But how can they force the Sellers to price the units higher, and how can they force the Buyer to agree to this arrangement?

It is stunningly simple. The Board has the right of first refusal, and they will disapprove any buyer if... the contract is penny short of $75K.

I can't believe it. So, I call the Association. Explain why I am calling, and they confirm it. They do not find any problem with it. All they want is that in the county record it shows $75K, and they can’t care less if there is a provision in the contract kicking back money to the Buyer for invented repairs.

Actually they are quite open about it. There are two units right now in this situation. There is no financing involved with both sales, so there would not be any mortgage fraud. It still does not sound kosher.

The Trustee is the attorney, and I learned that there was another attorney involved, and nothing happened. You want it, you write $75K…

This is the first time I deal with this, and I am really lost at this juncture. When the board decides what people should charge for their property, would they dictate what time they are allowed to pee…

Of course, this is their unit… but there is a legislative board

Did you have this experience and what did you do?

* Photo by  CarbonNYC via Flickr.com

Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

But Jon, if they exercise their right of first refusal, don't they have to purchase the unit?

Mar 12, 2012 08:26 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

May I recommend you offer them a couple of books -

"Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell
"Economics In One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt

But they won't read them...

Mar 12, 2012 08:37 PM
Insurance Solutions Unlimited,LLC
Insurance Solutions Unlimited, LLC - Winter Haven, FL
Insurance Solutions Unlimited,LLC

Jon, very interesting!  I have never heard of this type of control by a board before. good luck with your buyer

Mar 12, 2012 08:43 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Chris - it is actually not impossible to get away, since they have it not just in Rulles & Regulations (Pre-Sale Approval requirement), but also in their Condo Docs.

 

Mar 12, 2012 11:10 PM
Rob Arnold
Sand Dollar Realty Group, Inc. - Altamonte Springs, FL
Metro Orlando Full Service - Investor Friendly & F

If someone filed a lawsuit, this board could get in tons of trouble.  Florida has a condo ombudsman.  If he got word of this nonsense, the board of directors might get shut down for corruption, etc.  Granted it might not be the best use of your time to file a complaint though.

http://bpr.state.fl.us/condos/

 

Mar 12, 2012 11:12 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Inna - that's the reason it happens. we buy without really looking into the documents, and I can't blame anyone for not willing to read 120 page (more or less) of legalese and not only read it, but being able to forsee how it can be used and how it can affect you.

Good luck

Mar 12, 2012 11:12 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Sharon - condominium law is still relatively new (Florida condos started in early 60s), so the laws are still shaping.

Mar 12, 2012 11:15 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Satar - thank you. The last link was the closest. Not what I have read in Q&A in the newspaper where Gary Poliakoff used to run a weekly column, but it gives a lot of insight into the matter.

 

Mar 12, 2012 11:17 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Angie - gee, I did not know this is such cruel industry (LOL)

Mar 12, 2012 11:18 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Gabe - according to the attorneys, it is not automatic. And there are more variables, than we can imagine. After reading the article, it is clear that it can go either way. They are quating two legal cases, and in one the court had stricken the refusal, and in another upheld it. But cases are never identical.

I am sure two attorneys who were faced with it, figured that it may be and may be not. And they agreed to play this game.

Mar 12, 2012 11:22 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jay - you may, but as you correctly stated they wouldn't. I guess they are reading Machiavelli. A lot of fun reading and endless practical applications. Especially for the Board (LOL)

Mar 12, 2012 11:24 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

National Insurance Solutions - I am OK with the Buyer, I need all the luck with the Association

;-)

Mar 12, 2012 11:25 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Rob - this is what we do not know. I think it will do the trick, but when I started telling it to my buyer, he is not happy with fighting. He wants to buy a unit and be loved by the Board.

I can't blame him. And as far as I understand, as an agent, I don't have any standing fighting them.

Mar 12, 2012 11:29 PM
Eric Kodner
Madeline Island Realty - La Pointe, WI
CRS, Madeline Island Realty, LaPointe, WI 54850 -

Jon, I've never encountered anything like this in Minnesota or Wisconsin. We do have fairly well-defined state condominium laws up here.

Mar 13, 2012 12:44 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Eric - this is because our Boards are often run by those guys who ran from Minnesonta winters, but now they have more time on their hands (LOL).

Seriously, I sometime think that craziness is contagious, and it is everywhere this way, but you remind me that it is not necessarily the case.

If your climate were a little warmer, i would think of buying a condo there

Mar 13, 2012 02:44 AM
William Feela
WHISPERING PINES REALTY - North Branch, MN
Realtor, Whispering Pines Realty 651-674-5999 No.

Jon, I have not had this experience, but first right of refusal is usually just the right to have first chance to buy not to put a stop on any sale.

Not seeing the wording in the by-laws, I would really question the legality of this.  I know this happens often and until someone forces the issue, it will continue!

Mar 13, 2012 04:26 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

William - here in Florida you can have First Right of Refusal by the Association, and also First Right of Refusal by Members.

Often you have the first but not the second.

The By-Laws do not clarify (in this case). Just that the Association can say "no".

You are correct that often times these things survive a long time simply because people try to avoid the complications and do not sue, when they could

Mar 13, 2012 11:49 AM
Charles Stallions
Charles Stallions Real Estate Services - Pensacola, FL
850-476-4494 - Pensacola, Pace or Gulf Breeze, Fl.

I wonder if it would make any difference if it was a cash sale. But if the seller gave 10 k in concessions and the up the price according ly.

I heard a seller give 10 k in repair allowances and the price was what it was and it appraised. I have never heard of this but I suppose.

Mar 13, 2012 11:26 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Charles,

Actually, my deal is a cash deal. I can't imagine how they want to do it if there is mortgage involved, as this is mortgage fraud if they do it.

Also, there are two REOs and Banks told the Board to get lost, and that they would take them to court if they would prevent them from selling.

So, it is interesting to watch.

Mar 14, 2012 01:09 AM
Tim Bradley
Contour Investment Properties - Jackson Hole, WY
Commercial Real Estate Expert in Jackson Hole, WY

Wow, that's a very interesting scenario. The board is essentially committing extortion, but at no apparent gain to themselves. Do they really think the units are *worth* more just because they can artificially inflate the price like that? The banks holding REOs in the building will squash the board if it kills one of their sales...

Mar 15, 2012 04:05 AM