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A Front Staircase Disaster - A Follow Up

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

This blog concerns a previous post and could be called A Front Staircase Disaster - A Follow Up.

Getting an email from the agent it simply asked my opinion asking, "Do you think the items in this invoice will result in a good deck?"

The last thing I said to my clients before leaving after the inspection was not to accept a proposal from a contractor saying they would jack up the posts and repair the stairs, that the repairs for this porch needed to be done with a permit.

Reading the proposal attached to the email it said, "Repair/replace footings under the landing.  Attach the stair stringers to both decks."

What I didn't see is anything about pulling a permit.

The proposal also said to hurry, hurry and accept this so they could fit this work into their busy, busy, busy upcoming schedule.  Hurry!

So, will this proposed work result in a good deck, as the agent asks?

THAT ISN'T MY CALL!  I HAVE NO JURISDICTIONAL AUTHORITY!  MY OPINION WAS AND IS THAT A PERMIT NEEDS TO BE PULLED (AND CLOSED - MEANING THE COUNTY APPROVED THE WORK) AND THEN THINGS WOULD BE DONE PROPERLY.

So I sent the agent back the link I put on the report.  It is to the County website that defines when permits need to be pulled.  On that page is a place to click to see what the County requires regarding decks and stairs.  And on that page is a place to click showing diagrams as to how they expect things to be done.  It's pretty clear.  So I sent him those two links also.

And I replied basically, "Call the County to see if a permit is needed.  You can send the County my photos if you want."

Later I got back a text (don't get me started on texts as being business communication).  It said, "Thanks very much Jay.  I called the county and they said that yes, a permit is required.  We are expressing this in the buyer's home inspection response to the seller."

I thought WOW, THEY LISTENED!  So often people discount what I say in favor of a contractor's very official proposal.  The contractor is the "expert," no matter who it is.  And so often I am completely discounted.

My recommendation:  I have to tell you how good it feels when clients listen to their home inspector!  We home inspectors have nothing to gain, and a lot to lose, from offering a document which observes and reports the conditions of a given house.  Beyond our fee, we have no financial interest!  Are we willing to offer follow-up opinions?  Yes, within restraints.  But any such opinions will be just as objective, and client-leaning, as they can be.  The buyer is our client!  The client's understanding of the property's condition before purchase is our goal.

 

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments(34)

Tom White
Franklin Homes Realty LLC (615) 495-0752 or www.FranklinHomesRealty.com - Franklin, TN
Franklin Homes Realty LLC, Franklin TN

Jay, many times clients ask something that we are not prepared to answer. We may have an opinion, but they often think the opinion is fact. We're better off going the direction you did, which is to say what we do know--that a permit is required for this type of work.

Dec 26, 2014 02:32 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thanks Lynn.  At least take a proactive stance and see if a permit is required!

I agree Tom, but what is in black and white, like the county webstie, is the ultimate authority.  In that county all decks, and deck remodeling, require a permit (unless they are on the soil) because it is considered structural, but seeing sometimes is believing.

Dec 26, 2014 02:38 AM
Evelyn Kennedy
Alain Pinel Realtors - Alameda, CA
Alameda, Real Estate, Alameda, CA

Jay:

Good to hear that the seller's listened to your advice.  So many property owners do not want to pull permits because of the cost, no matter that a stair case requires it for safety issues.  I will often email the informaton from my community as to what job requires a permit and hope they do pull permits if the work requires a permit.

Dec 26, 2014 03:08 AM
Ann Wilkins
Golden Gate Sotheby's International Realty - Oakland, CA
Oakland, Berkeley, Piedmont CA

This is a tough one because most repairs of porches and decks in my city are done without permits.  Very reputable contractors will give a bid and have two prices - with or with out permits.  Our permits are very expensive and cause delays and also trigger other required work.  Since most of the homes are 75 plus years old, there are a lot of code corrections that might be called out.   We always know that a permit is required 99% of the time and leave it up to the client and their contractor to determine how they proceed.  

Dec 26, 2014 05:11 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Evelyn - a permit here to do this would be about $50.  But pulling one locks the contractor into doing it right!  Hence the rub, and additional expense.

Wow, Ann, that is a tough one.  So a deck could be finished and unsafe?  Would insurance cover a deck finished without a permit there?  Here I hear not.

Dec 26, 2014 05:46 AM
Evelyn Johnston
Friends & Neighbors Real Estate - Elkhart, IN
The People You Know, Like and Trust!

I don't understand why a Client will not listed when they are paying for your opinion.

Dec 26, 2014 08:15 AM
Rod Pierson
Wilson Realty Inc - Redding, CA
Northern California - An Agent you can trust

Most porches and decks were initially part of the permit when the house was built providing permits were issued or grand fathered in.

I agree for most people a repair with a permit might provide the contractor to do a safe repair or remodel.

Not all contractors are there to do a sham job. Most builders and contractors take pride and don't want any liabilities hence do a good job.

If a permit is pulled, a set of plans will be needed, time for the permit will be required. Not only the price of permits can be added but also time for permits and drawing plans.



Dec 26, 2014 10:18 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Many do, Evelyn, and many don't.

If you read the previous post Rod you'll see that most of the front porches in this neighborhood look like this one.  And many have been completely rebuilt by the owners.  Careful of work that does require a permit and the contractor says one isn't needed...

Dec 26, 2014 07:39 PM
James Dray
Fathom Realty - Bentonville, AR

Morning Jay I'm happy to see the follow up.  I prefer to call people you can get a lot more accomplished by a simple call.  Most of the people now prefer to text.  Just don't understand that logic while doing business.  

Dec 26, 2014 07:56 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

I will have a future post about texting James.  I don't consider it to be business communication.

And I'm glad they followed up too!

Dec 26, 2014 08:36 PM
Mike Cooper, Broker VA,WV
Cornerstone Business Group Inc - Winchester, VA
Your Neighborhood Real Estate Sales Pro

Jay, I would always get suspicious if a contractor is too busy to get a permit. There are a few I trust enough to go without a permit, but I would still require one. 

Dec 26, 2014 11:47 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

If the county requires one, the job requires one Mike, I mean Graaaaanpaaaah.

Dec 27, 2014 01:50 AM
Janice Soard
Friends & Neighbors Real Estate - Goshen, IN
The People you Know, Like and Trust!

I don't know why a Buyer who hired you wouldn't take your recommendations, that doesn't make sense.

Dec 27, 2014 01:56 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

This one did Janice!  And I'm glad.  Hopefully now they will get the job done correctly.

Dec 27, 2014 05:20 AM
Anna Hatridge
R Gilliam Real Estate LLC - Farmington, MO
Missouri Realtor with R Gilliam Real Estate LLC

Congratulation on the feature!  You are right, often a buyer will pay you for your opinion and ask lots of questions, then for some unknown reason not listen.  Listening creates a win-win situation.  

Dec 27, 2014 06:44 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thank you Anna.  I think this was one of the win, wins.

Nice avatar, by the way!

Dec 27, 2014 06:54 AM
Rebecca Gaujot, Realtor®
Lewisburg, WV
Lewisburg WV, the go to agent for all real estate

Hi Jay, so glad they listened and took the necessary action. Happy New Year.

Dec 27, 2014 08:58 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

The work isn't done yet Rebecca.  Would love to see it when it is!

Dec 27, 2014 07:55 PM
RVA HomePRO Michael Hottman
RVA HomePRO Realtor with Keller Williams serving Hanover, Henrico, Chesterfiled and Richmond, Virginia - Glen Allen, VA
Helping you achieve goals in life & real estate

Jay Markanich what a way to encourage them to do it right. Ultimately it's up to them but when we do things the right way it doesn't cause issues later down the road and we don't fall for people's sales tactics.

Dec 27, 2014 10:16 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Send them in the right direction Michael, and hopefully they will continue.

Like horses to water, I guess!

Dec 28, 2014 01:06 AM