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Figures Lie and Liars Figure! - Why Congress Should Stand Pat On Prohibiting Off-Shore Drilling

By R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Mortgage and Lending with Bank of England (NMLS#418481) NMLS# 1046286

July 14, 2008 07:04 AM

I just watched President Bush's address that announced that he was lifting the executive order that stood prohibiting off-shore drilling. During his speech he made statements and gave figures that might make people believe that drilling off of our shores would bring gasoline prices down.

The facts of the matter are that on a short run basis, this simply isn't true. Drilling off of our shores will take at least 7 years before it could have an impact on gasoline prices. So it's simply not true that in order to deal with our current energy crises that we need to open up these areas in order to bring prices down.

This is nothing more than a land grab on the part of the big energy companies and while you might hear the various conservative talk show hosts banging on this drum and the big media companies (where most of us get our news from) framing the discussion in such a way that the many in the public begin to think that this is something that we should do, I ask you to put on your thinking caps and think this one out before you jump on that wagon.

If you accept the premise that our use of carbon based fuel is warming our planet to dangerous levels, then you should realize that even if we can increase the production of oil domestically in the next 7 to 10 years, that it really shouldn't matter. Instead of putting money into finding and exploiting this source of energy that is killing our planet, we should put this money and effort into perfecting the various "alternative" forms of energy that we have available to us.

If you don't accept the premise that our use of carbon based fuel is warming our planet to dangerous levels, then you should still realize that even if you don't accept global warming as a problem that the excess carbon in the atmosphere is causing great damage...maybe even irreparable damage to our oceans and the creatures that live in them.

Why does the fact that our oceans are getting more acidic and that this is killing off a very high percentage of the corals that live in our oceans matter to us humans? Because if the ocean dies, we die!

This acidification of the oceans may very well be what does us in even before global warming has a chance.

The end result is that we need to STOP BURNING FOSSIL FUELS to power our economy. Since this is the case, allowing the drilling for oil off of our shores and in our pristine wilderness environments is indeed simply a case of continuing the failed energy policies that the Bush Administration has been following since it came to power 8 years ago.

So again, I ask you to put on your thinking caps. Don't let off the wall statements such as, "Drilling in Anwr will provide oil equal to what we import from Saudi Arabia" fool you. Drilling in Anwr won't break our dependence upon foreign oil.

Even if it were able to lower the cost of oil by increasing the world wide supply (it wouldn't because when you look at the amount of oil that could be produced in Anwr, it is such a small percentage of world-wide production that it wouldn't have any discernible effect), it wouldn't matter because we need to stop using fossil based fuels to power our economies. Also, if history is any indication, cheaper oil would simply result in our using more of it which would in turn make the Global warming and ocean acidification problems worse!

R.B. "Bob" Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Bob Mitchell is president of ValueList Real Estate Services, St. Louis' largest discount/full-service real estate and mortgage company. If you would like to find out more about Bob, ValueList or our flat-fee listing program, please feel free to visit our web site at valuelistre.com

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R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC

Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Cheri': I think that we're pretty much on the same page here. My gut level is to support you on the nuclear issue, but for right now, I don't see an alternative in the short run. When I get a chance, I will look into the matter further. Thanks for your comments!

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Jul 23, 2008 07:27 AM

Ryan Trask

3plains - Shakopee, MN

Bob, interesting post. I do agree with you on the fact of yes, giving a order today to drill oil does not help our current gas pump situation. 7 years? Not sure on that, but you may be right if you have done your research. However, your point about alternative energy is correct.

In the 80's when I was still a young kid, was when Toyota and Honda were creating very fuel efficient internal combustion engines and vehicles and they were on the development chopping block. Yes, they still run on gasoline, but hey, they were efficent back then with not much popularity.

Fast forward. 20 years later, GM & Ford are hurting! Why? Does GM & Ford have reliable, fuel efficient vehicles? They say they do and opinions may tell you that. But if you do your research, how many people are now buying foreign cars for fuel efficiency and reliablity. I drove Ford F-150's till gas hit over $2. After that, I bought a a Toyota Camry and haven't had one problem and fill up much less. I'm not knocking Ford as a product... I love F-150's.

The US did this to ourselves and its a wonder why alternative reports (not cnn or fox) are giving GM a 75% chance of failure. Too bad for the US. We need alternatives besides the internal combustion engine.

On another note, anyone remember the wankel engine? Useless fact of the day.

Jul 31, 2008 08:06 PM

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC

Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Ryan: I have a hard time feeling sorry for Ford or GM....while they do have some costs that the other car companies don't (I've read that something like $900.00 of each car that they make goes towards pension and health care liabilities), I don't think that this accounts for them selling us pieces of crap for decades now.

You might have noticed that I left Chrysler off that list. I did this because one of my last cars was a Dodge Intepid and I finally sold it with something like 235,000 miles on it and the only non-maintenance repair was some front end work)...so they get a pass..

Anyway, I believe in the concept that nobody changes unless there is enough pain to make them want to change and I think that this goes for companies too. I had hoped that this would result in the American auto companies making a better product, but now that I own a 2007 Ford....I'm starting to see that this isn't the case.

This past weekend I took that vehicle out to show property and probably for less than the 10th time since it rolled off of the assembly line that vehicle had somebody in the back seat. As my client was getting out of the vehicle, the weather stripping around the back door fell off. Completely....poof! Gone!

I've also noticed that there were spots on the paint that were thin. When will they learn! Now, this vehicle was actually given to my girlfriend (because her mom was sick of it and went and bought a Honda), but even still! I would think that I could have expected better this late in the game.

Regarding the Wankel....I think that Mazda still has one vehicle that uses it... thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Aug 01, 2008 03:58 AM

Mike Saunders

Retired - Athens, GA

Bob - I don't buy either man made global warming or fossil fuels killing coral. The coral reefs in places like Leyte Gulf and other locations were there were massive ship sinkings and oil polution as a result are recovering nicely. The biggest threat to coral is coastal development and the use of fertilizers.

I do agree, more drilling will not significantly lower today's oil prices, however, it will certainly keep them from getting to $12 or $15 dollars a gallon. It will also provide for an economical transition to alternative energy sources.

Aug 02, 2008 12:41 AM

Fred Chamberlin

Guild Mortgage Co - Oak Harbor WA - Oak Harbor, WA

Oak Harbor/Whidbeynulls, #1 Experienced FHA Mortgage Consultant

Bob - First, I think you have to take this 7 year stuff and throw it away. That is the same excuse used 7 years ago when nothing was done. We need to do everything. Wind, solar, hydrogen,oil, oil shale, clean coal, tide, bio fuels, methane and anything new that comes along. And yes, nuclear.

I believe the debate on global warming is not over, just hijacked by anti capitalists. Reasonable people can have reasonable debate. It is when we, who don't believe that global warming is a fact, are compared to heretics that the debate gets hijacked again.

Also, more taxes is never the answer to anything.

Aug 02, 2008 05:12 AM

Gene Wunderlich

1st Action Real Estate - Murrieta, CA

Realtor & Legislative Liaison

I believe the NAR was correct in modifying their stance to address global climate CHANGE - the earth warms and cools, or different parts warm and cool, some rise, some sink, Greenland reclaims part of the land mass that existed there hundreds of years ago, other parts of the globe become too cold to inhabit - it's all part of a natural rhythm. That's the inconvenient truth.

I love the poeple who say - well,I'm FOR exploring everything EXCEPT nuclear, or except wind, or except hydro - then you're not really open to exploring ALL the alternatives or looking at ALL the solutions. When 75% of France can rely on clean nuclear energy without generating significant residues or experiencing ANY accidents or leakage for more than 2 decades, it's hard to believe we couldn't do at least as good a job if not better.

Aug 02, 2008 12:23 PM

Ryan Trask

3plains - Shakopee, MN

Bob: Dodge Intrepid 235k? You got your $ out of that baby!

Very interesting story regarding your 2007 Ford. Wow. How can you even get mad? I'd just sit there and say "that figures".

Bob, your one of the few that actually know of the Wankel unless you googled it. Nice work. The wankel never got to be super reliable because of the gaps on the rotary piston vs. having piston rings on the piston. The piston rings have a better gap and the wankel would always lose power because of this problem. When I was a kid, I thought the wankel was made by aliens because it was so goofy looking.

Aug 02, 2008 10:25 PM

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC

Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Mike: From what I understand, the debate is pretty much over in scientific circles about whether or not there is Global Warming and if it's due to man. I"m not a scientist, but from what I've read the evidence seems pretty over whelming that we are indeed causing the planet to warm.

Regarding the acidification of the oceans...this is happening and has been measured. There is no scientific debate over this. While it remains to be seen how much damage that it ends up doing, the potential damage is significant enough to threaten our very existence! It's pretty scary stuff! Probably the scariest stuff that most people have never heard of!

Your points on fertilizers and coastal development could very well be true too! I disagree with you on drilling helping in the transition to alternative energy sources though. The sooner we commit whole hog, the better. Continuing to drill is only going to postpone the inevitable. Thanks for your comment!

Fred: I agree that reasonable people can disagree and that the debate shouldn't degrade into name calling, but as I pointed out to Mike above, the evidence is pretty over-whelming. I also agree that all forms of energy should be looked at, but that doesn't mean that we should adopt them. Oil Shale for example, uses a tremendous amount of water, plus still has the problems that come with it being a carbon based fuel.

Personally, I think that tax policy can be an effective way to encouraging folks to switch to better alternatives. Look at how many people have started to quit smoking cigarettes when they increased taxes substantially.

Ryan: I loved that Dodge! I've heard that other folks weren't as lucky as I was, but it was a big comfortable car that got decent gas mileage and had a killer engine in it.

Regarding the Ford....I'm not bitching...the car was free after all, but still...that didn't have anything to do with the weather stripping falling off. It simply shouldn't have done that!

Thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Aug 03, 2008 03:02 PM

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC

Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Gene: Sorry about that....I just skipped over you! Regarding global warming being a natural event...I kind of doubt it....From everything that we can tell, the current pace that the planet is warming is without precedent!

As I mentioned above, I'm all for considering all forms of alternative energy...even nuclear....but we do need to be careful. Thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Aug 03, 2008 03:05 PM

Jon Michael

DeGeorge Realty LLC - Long Branch, NJ

You are obviously a democratic IDIOT, and this "land grab" will help our energy needs...So the F what if its not going to cut prices in half over night, it will in the future take the burden off of our dependance on foreign oil, and if done in conjunction with improvements in alternative energy sources it will in the long run CLEARLY help our country, which it seems more and more clear you people HATE. Democrats should take long walks off of short peirs, because in some cases they think like You. Maybe you like the idea of being forever linked to foreign oil, hell maybe Israel will take over and you will eventually get a break...I won't hold my breath. You should go on vacation like that dinosaur nancy pelosi, because obviously your brain has been on vacation for years. And, if all you are going to take into account is Anwr, then you have another thing comming, there is oil all over the place, and wether you like it or not we Will open up those reserves. American needs it now, and will continue to need oil for centuries to come. Get used to it, and move on!

Aug 04, 2008 07:41 AM

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC

Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Jon....Jon....Jon....Did you miss your pill today or do they need to up your dosage?

Chill brother....First of all, I'll match my IQ with yours any day, but that's besides the point. My point was that even if we were to find a butt load of oil right here in the Good Ole USA, it's not a good ideal to keep on the same path that we've been on. Did you not read the post?

Burning fossil fuels is pumping a lot of CO2 into our atmosphere which is then transferring it to our oceans causing the ph of the oceans to become less alkaline (or more acidic, if you will). This is in turn making it very difficult for coral (and other things that use calcium to build shells or skeletons) to live.

This is important to us because if these creatures go extinct, then it's possible (maybe even probable) that the entire ecosystem of the oceans could collapse. If this happens, then we're all FXCKED! Do I need to walk you through that again?

Now as far as how I feel about my country, I'm an honorably discharged veteran...How about you?

Do me a favor, if you would, turn down the talk radio and pick up a copy of the Constitution and maybe some books on how it came to be. While judging from your writing, you're probably not that good a reader, you still might find it interesting to see that honest discourse and debate is part of what makes our democracy function.

And thank you for your comment!

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Aug 04, 2008 03:41 PM

Delaware Junk Removal Residential And Commercial Hauling Clean Outs

Delaware Junk Removal 302-530-9186 - Wilmington, DE

Whole House Clean Outs, Basements, Garages, Attics

Hi Bob- Oil is one of the things that made us such a great country. Its the reason you have been able to take a child to the emergency room or go to work 10+ miles away, drive that car and get 30 miles to the gallon.

We need to drill our oil here and still develop alt energy like Nuke power. Using your logic above that drilling here wont help, it will take 7 years bla bla bla, well let me tell you solar is more than 7 years away and wind wont even make a dent.

As for "global warming" come on, you buy into that? If you do im sure you can start buying carbon credits now to get a head start on fixing this problem.

One final thought, dont you think its a bit strange that ever since President Bush said he would lift the ban on drilling that the price has been coming down? Cant be related can it? That would take at least um 7 years!

Aug 23, 2008 02:28 PM

Justin Ukaoma

Vizion KC - Kansas City, MO

Kansas City Real Estate Investments

Oil is more than just energy. Oil is part of everyting we do. While I agree that we should get a way from using Oil as energy. How will we make the hundereds of other products that come from oil without oil?

Aug 24, 2008 11:42 AM

Justin Ukaoma

Vizion KC - Kansas City, MO

Kansas City Real Estate Investments

Aug 24, 2008 11:42 AM

Delaware Junk Removal Residential And Commercial Hauling Clean Outs

Delaware Junk Removal 302-530-9186 - Wilmington, DE

Whole House Clean Outs, Basements, Garages, Attics

Justin- I had someone tell me the other day there is a solar airplane in development. I said "you first" haha

Aug 24, 2008 01:18 PM

David W. Bolick

Network Real Estate, Inc. - Little Rock, AR

I think global warning is a hoax and that is becoming more and more evident for those that aren't blinded by false science.
I think carbon emissions is an absolute ridiculous misconception
I think icebergs melting and raising sea levels is kindergarten science and absurd
I think as long as people are narrow-minded and listen to all this self-serving crap from the politicians and people like T.Boone in bed with Pelosi's husband just to get richer and as long as people like my brother-in-law thinks the Republicans have a majority in congress, just proves the problem with this country is people believing in anything and everything their told WITHOUT PROOF OR science!

Let China and Russia and the rest of the world proceed while the uninformed masses in this country sit here and doing nothing but revert to the dark ages by eliminating gas, oil, all the byproducts, nuclear, etc.

And Bob, I respectfully disagree with your assumption that "drilling" doesn't lower the cost of gasoline. Oil prices are driven by "THE FUTURES MARKET" NOT how quick oil comes out of the ground. I can assure you if congress said drill, drill, drill everywhere and anywhere and a much and as fast as possible, the future price of oil would drop $50 to $60 a barrel in 24 hours without one single drill bit hitting the ground.

Aug 25, 2008 01:28 PM

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC

Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

Hi....sorry for the delay in getting back to you folks...I was out hugging a tree while I took a break from my bicycle ride...

Anyway, Larry: You're right that oil is part of what has made us a great country, cheap and abundant oil...plus the fact that we were pretty much the first to jump on it, did indeed give us a head start on the rest of the world. That said, it's time that we led the world again and started taking advantage of all of the alternatives to fossil fuels.

I do buy into the global warming thing, as do almost ALL of the various climate scientists around the world. Of those that don't, follow the bouncing dollar signs and you'll see why they diss global warming. Carbon credits are one way of addressing the problem, but so is conserving fuel where we can and utilizing alternative sources of energy.

Regarding the price of oil coming down, yeah it's taken a bit of a dip, but look at it!!!! Gas is still above 3 something a gallon. When Clinton was in office, gas was what...$1.19 or something? Since Bush took office (a perfect term since he wasn't truly elected in the first place) oil has gone up something like 800%! Does the fact that him and Cheney (and a lot of the neo cons in power today) are oil men have anything to do with this? Hmmmm, let me think???? Yep!

The price of oil coming down has more to do with the fact that it's strangling the economy than the fact that Bush dropped the mouretorium....which was a symbolic move in the first place!

Anyway, thanks for your comment.

Justin: If we got away from using oil as an energy source, there would be plenty available for other uses such as petro chemicals and plastics....thanks for your comment too!

Larry: I'd be interested in flying in it, as long as it had a good old fashion gasoline engine as a back up! ;-)

David: What can I say....the vast majority of the worlds climate scientists, as well as most other scientists of various fields, disagree with you.

China and Russia will follow suit if we switch to alternative energy sources because in the long run, they will be more efficient and because as time goes on it will become more and more evident that we can't continue on our present course without jeopardizing the health of our planet!

You're halfway right in regards to your comment about the oil prices being driven by the futures market...this is indeed where oil prices are set...but they aren't driven by the futures market, the futures market is driven by the facts on the ground. Those facts point towards oil prices returning towards appreciation.

Thanks for your comment too!

To Everyone: If you would, please do me a favor.....while I realize that a good number of you are coming from a particular political slant, this issue is too important to be political about. Before you spout off your opinion about global warming being a hoax or that we have all the oil that we need...etc. please, do some research.....be objective! PLEASE???

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Sep 01, 2008 01:36 PM

William Feela

WHISPERING PINES REALTY - North Branch, MN

Realtor, Whispering Pines Realty 651-674-5999 No.

We, the American public are a selfish bunch. I keep hearing that "someone" needs to do something to bring down energy costs. Much of that "someone" is right in our own hands. I drive down the highway, and I get pased like I am standing still by a 4x4 doing well over 70 on the freeway. Slowing down would save. I walked into an office building and the temp was below 70. At night lights are on in buildings. Do we need aal thelights on the freeways and other intesections? My car has headlights. Ok Some of thisis for pedestrian saftey, but let's get real.

If more people would start doing "their" share, It would make a big difference. We still need to explore and drill, but we also need to conserve! We need to find alternative sources, but are you willing to pay a bit more for that tyoe of energy.

Ther is no easy answer, but until we as the American public as a whole start changing our ways...there will never be enough energy for us or our granddhildren!!

Sep 02, 2008 06:42 AM

David W. Bolick

Network Real Estate, Inc. - Little Rock, AR

Noted Bob. The mind is like a parachute...it only works when opened.

The new, news/buzz today is the long studied effects of sun spots and global earth temperature that's been reported for quite some time now. Two articles below warn of a serious global "cooling" which is worse than warming.

http://ideonexus.com/2008/02/13/sun-spot-cycle-prompts-fears-of-global-cooling/

http://www.paulmacrae.com/?p=34

Sep 02, 2008 09:13 AM

R. B. "Bob" Mitchell - Loan Officer Raleigh/Durham

Bank of England (NMLS#418481) - Raleigh, NC

Bob Mitchell (NMLS#1046286)

William: I agree with you, but only to a certain extent. If we were utilizing the alternative energy sources that are available to us, then we would be able to blast our 4X4's down the road at crazy speeds and leave the lights on so that people get the feeling that we're actually at work doing something at 3 in the morning!

No, I do agree with you and thanks for your comment.

David: You do realize that that first article was being factious, don't you? Anyway, there might be something to the sun spot/global cooling theory...climate science is still a pretty open field. We'll have to keep our eyes open. That said, there is still the issue of ocean acidification to worry about.

thanks for your comment.

Bob Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Sep 03, 2008 09:53 AM

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