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Rating your designation as a loan officer or realtor - Do you manipulate such designations as advertising to get more business?

name tag - designations

What is in a name? - Honesty? Integrity? Knowledge? Trustworthy? Creativity? Being reliable?

What is in a name designation? - In most cases, the same that would be attached with any name?

Some of you might be asking yourself, "what am I talking about." How about those names that come with such designations as :

Certified planner - Certified Technician

Mortgage Specialist - Real Estate Specialist

In the mortgage and real estate world, many realtors and loan officers have special designations attached to their names. You will usually find these designations on their business cards or on their web site.

Realtor -

CRS - Certified Residential Specialist

ABR - Accredited Buyers Representative

CNS - Certified Neighborhood Specialist

SRS - Seller Representative Specialist

Loan Officers -

CMPS - Certified Mortgage Planner Specialist

UMB - Upfront Mortgage Broker

CLA - Certified Liability Advisor

My Example : Just last week, I wrote this post about basic information on FHA loans and what you should be careful of. FHA loans 101- The basics of FHA mortgages & mortgage shopping - I truly pride myself on numbers, giving out very accurate figures, and not just my opinions based on assumptions. But to prove them with real numbers, not numbers that can be manipulated to make me look right.

I had a loan officer disagree with my opinion and my figures. Hey, I have no problem with people disagreeing. I might actually learn something. Yet he told me that I wasn't correctly comparing apples to apples and that the upfront mortgage insurance was still a cost to the borrower. That part is true, but he didn't read my whole post and review my comparison examples, which detailed this. And if you know how to compare FHA loans vs conventional loans, you understand the whole mortgage insurance issues. You don't have a specific designation for this.

I mentioned several types of designations, which many of them give that realtor or loan officer more knowledge and education. But there is one type of designation that sells costs and that is an upfront mortgage broker. If you read many sites by upfront mortgage brokers, they sell their costs, telling you that they will negotiate your costs, making them usually sound very affordable. This is great for the average consumer. But what is not mentioned is the service or advice that one might receive or in this case, the lack of. Meaning, my comparisons were sound and flawless. But if you deal with someone that sells costs, but might give you the wrong advice, do you think a cheap loan will still be cheap if they gave you the wrong advice?

Conclusion :

person behind that name?

My whole point to this post? To make the average consumer understand that not everyone is as knowledgeable or ethical as they may sound just because they have one of these designations. Yes, many of these designations mentioned require for that person to take classes and a test in order to receive that designation.

How many of you remember going to school and passing a test to a class that you didn't fully pay attention to? How many of you were good at winging things? How many have a photogenic mind, are able to remember what they read or hear, yet might not comprehend what was said?

So, who are you really? Just because you say that you a CMPS, certified mortgage planner, does it mean that you have my best interest at hand? Do you know exactly what you are doing?

In regards to the loan officer in my example. This person advertises lowest cost loans. I have an old saying..."the cheapest loan on paper might cost you more in the long run." If this person doesn't know how to compare specific loans, how can this be the cheapest for you? The best? What happens if that person's choices aren't accurate? Wrong? Misleading? Many loan officers sell costs, but can't give you accurate or reliable comparisons when it comes to specific programs. Just keep this in mind when shopping for a mortgage.

PS... don't get me wrong. In many cases, designations are good. One of the mortgage designations, CMPS, and many real estate designations are great educational tools. But if someone preaches it or slams it don't your throat, that might be their only selling feature to you. A desgination should not be verification for that person to be credible. Just be careful...

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Posted by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- FHA Loans -- FHA mortgages - USDA loans on 10/23/2009 01:36 PM

Comments (42)

Mortgage Designations in the Mortgage / Finance Channel

mortgage designations, cmps, upfront mortgage brokers, realtor desiginations, certified mortgage planners

Originally posted at: FHA Mortgage Expert - Tri-State Area - New Jersey/PA/Delaware: Rating your designation as a loan officer or realtor - Do you manipulate such designations as advertising to get more business?

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42 Comments on Rating your designation as a loan officer or realtor - Do you manipulate such designations as advertising to get more business?

OCT

Yes, designations can convey more education and a level of knowledge above the herd but only if the public is made aware. Most people do not know a CRS from a BFD but it's still a good idea and frankly obtaining my Broker's license really did make a difference. Nice post, good to see you I have been so busy that I am not at AR as often these days!

I love to read a great post like this one. Please keep on making it RAIN!!!

I've been working on my EIEIO license for a while. Dang mail-order courses are tuff!!

RUSSELL.... . sure, we would expect that a designation comes with more knowledge. But what I am finding, especially in the mortgage world, that some loan officers use specific designations to convey that they are great at what they do and the cheapest. And it can be very misleading. Sure, I will give you the cheapest 5/1 arm, but is that going to be the best program for you? And sure, I am sure many don't know the differences between specific designations. Hence another reason why I had to write this. It's too easy to assume, just because you have a designation, that the consumer would think that you better than the average in that field. Just food for thought. In any case, thanks for the compliment and it's good to see you around also. thanks

JEREMY.... . thanks for the polite comment.

STEVE.... . ha ha ha.. keep your day job. ;o) I guess the comment comes from having kids? Do you have that license? ;o)

Jeff,

A life time ago, while teaching an orientation class for new REALTORS I was explaining and encoraging designations, one young man took me to heart. Two weeks later he sent me his new card. I was shocked! It listed hin as: John D Doe, LRES. There we're many designations at the time and only the GRI for home salesmen. The GRI required 3 years experience! This guy had his LRES in two weeks! I called him, what the hell is a LRES? He responded that he was now a "Licensed Real Estate Salesman" and he had his pocket card to prove it.

Designations are power! Power from the knowledge required! Borrowed power! Power from association! Implied power! Mostly and most important designations have the power to easly open doors!!!!!!!!!! But, make know mistake the power of the designation only last until you open your mouth! Once you start talking it's up to you to maintain the image! Do you need a designation/s no not if your a known entity, not if you don't mind starting from scratch with each new prospect.

Do I know of what I speak? Well, I did turn down the CCIM.

I have regetted it at least weekly ever since!

Bill

GRI

Jeff I did the CMPS designation, and am considering more advanced training as well. I used to market myself that way, and I knew (now) the stuff, but the majority of the public have no clue or care about it. The importance is that when you sit them down in the office they have a meaningful, educational, financially beneficial process.

Jeff, was talking about you yesterday at an open house here in Chicago. I'm the listing agent but the buyer wants an FHA loan. Putting 10% down because he doesn't qualify for the purchase price but he qualified for the loan amount.

Cut and pasted your articles and sent to him. He'll be calling you.

We ought to have some kind of designation for all the information we've received here.....

Bottom line...having all that information for just the sake of having it doesn't mean a darn thing...unless putting all that info into action.

BILL.... of course, some excellent points. But one more food for thought. I know some loan officers and realtors that have 8 + years of experience, and they still don't know much. I closed a loan last year that another loan officer had for 35 days, said all was okay, and the day of closing, said it was denied... but that he was still working on it. This was a loan officer who told the borrower that he had 30 years experience as a loan officer. Me? At the time, I had only 16 years, took the loan, and closed it in 7 business days. It was very tough, but it came down to credit issues. I had to help straighten out many issues, but it took knowledge on how do to this.

Overall, I understand your point.... my main point is that it's not always the years in business or how many designations that you have.... or what they are. Some just use this as sales talk, to get themselves in the door... making the consumer feel like they are on top of their game because of the designation. Not always the case.. thanks for your input.

STEVE.... we have talked about this and I am aware of the CMPS designation and what it can teach you. I think this type of education is good. But it still comes down to basics, not a designation. If you can't educate the consumer on the basics of mortgages, be able to compare programs, and give the best advice, in my opinion, the designation doesn't mean much. Yes, everyone handles this differently... but some just use these designations to sell who they are and not what they are. thanks

BARB.... thanks Barb, I truly appreciate that and I will keep you posted. thanks

garaughty, blog design, graphics, marketing, wordpress

I don't need to pay a fee to some organization to have the right to act as an Up Front Mortgage Banker..... I can do it WITHOUT the designation.

I hope consumers can see thru the hype(scam)

Jeff - I am glad you got this up. I find it really infuriating that people use these designations as a form of credibility. It makes me think of doctors, they all have the M.D. but would you want to work with Conrad Murray M.D.? Also I wonder how many people just put the Designation on their card to do it and never tookl the class. I am willing to bet that 97% of the public wouldn't know how to verify that the professional is really certified.

JP Lowry--Certified as the Greatest Mortgage Banker Ever--GMBE-- As well as "Coolest Guy In This Universe"--

Hey its certified.

Jeff,

Until you know the person years are like designations. Some people have 8 years experience, but when they speak you find out they have only six months experience sixteen times!

Bill

I have designations but what I was really going after was the education. Some of those designations qualify for continuing education and I can assure you they are 1000% more educational than any of the continuing education courses.

LMAO @ #1 Russell!!!

Renee Burrows, SRS, SRES, ABR, AHWD, almost has a RSPS and you can KMA!

PS: It does show that someone did make a little extra effort but doesn't necessarily make you an expert!

SOOO true this post is. I do think its important to have designations, not to be displayed, but I think its great to continue your education. The designations should not be taken as a 'Im better than him'. As you stated, it does not mean they are better just because they have those 3 or 4 letters.

* for the record, I do plan on adding designations to my title so I am stating facts but not because I do not have the letters/education, because I will have them and will still feel the same way *

Designations usually mean more to the consumer than the other professional but not always. Some are absolutely jokes to most professionals and are invented just to make the group who use them seem more professional or more trustworthy. I have always had a giggle and a bone with the up front broker thing and all of us realize what it is. The problem with it is when people like Jeff what's his name use it to make it sound like I'm a liar and a cheat because I'm not designated.

I don't need a designation to use my years of experience and to be fair and honest with my clients.

However, I will probably finish my CMPS. Mostly because of the education - they are probably the best mortgage designators. Heck, I may as well stay in this business. I mean what designations are there for sanitation workers?

OCT

SALLY... . hhhmmmm... and what kind of designation would that be? In any case, it really wouldn't mean much to me. It's like someone calling themselves a manager, yet they aren't great management material.

MARTI... . thanks for the honor... much appreciative.

TOM... . I think the ons that can do this on their own are best suited for the business. Getting a low cost good faith estimate, but poor advise or guidance could prove more costly to that borrower down the road. A great example would be my comparison on the 5/1 arm vs 30 yr fixed rate in my last FHA loans 101 post. I found that some of the loan officers didn't properly educate the borrower on how a 5/1 works and this could have cost him thousands of dollars on his decision.

JP..... . thanks for your input, because this does get under my skin also, on how some use these designations, yet they have no clue about the business. What does this truly do for the borrower?

BILL... . hey, I use my 17 years as a selling point, I will admit that. Yet I have know some with more years of experience and they sucked... but I get your point. thanks

SANDRA.... . I think many realtors that go after their designations use it for educational purposes. This post was more geared towards the loan officers that get certain designations and still don't know the basics.. or know squat, yet they sell their designation to the borrower, hoping to attract their business.

RENEE.... . I love some of your designations. Thanks for the laugh... lol And yes, I agree, it does show effort. But please read my comment to Sandra. This was more about those mortgage designations. PS... I like your new pic.

JOHN... . I do believe many designations are good for continuing educational purposes... but I also see some, especially loan officers, that use these designations to win business. The upfront mortgage broker I think is an excellent example and how this can happen. And good luck with continuing yours...

KEN.... . part of your comment cracked me up. But overall, you and I will agree on this 110%. I think some designations can help a lot in the educating role of things. But especially on the mortgage side of things, they can be a joke. Especially for what the upfront mortgage broker designation stands for. Low costs still might cost you more overall and in the long run if that loan officer only told you what they know and gave bad advice.

Jeff, It doesn't matter whether you have designations or call yourself an 'expert', what matters is your knowledge and how yous use it. Unfortunately, there's quite a few out there who think they know, but don't really.

Thanks Jeff. Im not in a huge rush to get it done, but Im sure I'll do it at some point.

Jeff: Designations don't mean much to me. The bottom line is someone ethical in their business dealings. Plus, some people crow about their so-called expertise. To me, it smacks of arrogance. No one is smarter than anyone else and should never take that angle. I appreciate your thoughts but, again, designations and braggadoccio are exactly that. Thanks.

In a recent survey NAR concluded that only 4% of the public considered professional designations of any importance when choosing which Real Estate professional they wanted to work with. While they do enhance ones overall knowledge, they do not make them an expert necessarily.

What matters to customers is service, and even more importantly, closing the deal in a timely manner with the least amount of stress.

CNS - Certified Neighborhood Specialist

I'm not familiar with that one... although I do have a CNS from Coldwell Banker (Certified Negotiation Specialist).

But I find that the public doesn't understand any of this stuff, and they're not impressed by it.

Some of the worst Prima Donnas I've had to work with were ones that had a slew of alphabets behind their name. And some of the most successful agents I know . . . have none.

Designations tell the world that you are willing to go the extra mile to make yourself better in your field. They are meaningless, however, if you don't apply what you learn. You have to keep learning - the business I do today in quite different from that in 1991, when I began.

I hear a lot of comments regarding how "it doesn't matter what you have" as far as designations. I think it does matter. Experience is really #1 in the RE biz, so we should all first and foremost have IEY designation (I'm Experienced, Yo). Touching back on the CMPS designation for loan officers, I am 10x more financially literate based off of that training (in addition to some other stuff) and I would (and may) continue my education that way. Having said that, the training had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with closing loans. So really someone could strum up for themself 100 leads and referral partners and not close any of the deals. Its really tough to run a business that way. On the flip side, I've seen some LO's that are "dumb as rocks" but can really close some loans. The fact is that most loan officers do not possess both of these qualities strongly. One exception of course would be Jason Sardi, who has virtually reached the Zen of mortgage lending.

when i started, many years ago a loan officer was an officer. it came with a great deal of responsibility.

now we have individuals who belong to the alphabet soup group and i'm not sure what all the letters mean.

i hope that they stand for ethics, integrity, trustworthiness, education, knowledge.

in many cases yes, in some no.

I think the designations DO tell your fellow realtors / loan officers that you value your profession and have pursued some ongoing education in your chosen field. I DON'T think it conveys the same indication to the general public, however.

Anymore designations convey longevity. Some many real estate and mortgage people come and go. It's almost like a revolving door, especially during these economic times. Personally I advertise my designations more with my colleagues than I do with my customers. The customers don't understand what they mean, but my colleagues do.

If the NAR didn't promote it that way it wouldn't be used as a "marketing" tool. But, the truth is - there is more money is selling designations than there is in selling real estate. If anyone asks me about designation courses, I tell them to go sign up for a course at the local college. At least they will have something tangible in the end.

I think the designations are nice and show a commitment to education. However, there is no substitute for practical knowledge, experience and the ability to communicate. If you do not have the best interest of the borrower at heart and be able to effectively communicate the best options, you are nowhere. You also must have a bit of humility because no one has all the answers and you must have an open mind.

I remember a few years ago I sat down with an estate planner. He had a long list of letters after his name. He gave me a bewildering presentation of numbers, graphs and charts that made my head explode. I consider myself I fairly intelligent person, but after his presentation I was more confused. As a loan officer, if I can remove the confusion from a confusing process, deliver on my promises and keep the best interest of my borrower as my main goal, I have done my job.

There's a whole littany of 3 and 4 letter designations out there. But if you ask a consumer - any consumer - what any of them means, and I'm sure you'll get nothing but shrugs and blank stares. Designations mean nothing to them. What they want is someone to help them solve a problem.

Jeff-what is interesting is how people use their designations and lord them over other agents as if they make them a "better" agent for having them. For example I have a CRS which means I have had to take a series of courses AND have a significant # of transactions under my belt. I don't have a ABR.

The CRS designation contains a coursework specific to buyer agency and certainly by the # of transactions I've exceed those required for the ABR. Does that mean I am not as qualified to assist a buyer as someone with the ABR designation? Don't think so. Instead of getting what I see as a redundant designation I've taken additional CE courses on contracts or another subject that makes sure I am up to date on what is happening in my market.

@ Steve Kappre - Thanks for the philosophical mention and after this year, I just may go David Carradine on my own ass;)

Belonger - I think in some part that these designations represent additional education in ones field. And of course a lot of folks will use that as a marketing edge. The same way they'd use 30 years of experience in the industry as such. The same way they'd use the big name company they work for as such. The same as they'd use the amount of closed transactions as such. The same as their time spent waxing Grace Kelly's eyebrows before entering the Industry in the first place.

While I have mixed feelings about using such educational credentials in a marketing platform, I don't abhor it. Anything to better equip one at doing their job and understanding their industry is rarely a bad thing ... especially for the clients they will be working for/with.

Do consumers care? For the most part, I don't think so. They are still stuck on the interest rate alone, and that's largely our fault.

OCT

The great thing about a desgination is that you probably earned it. I think that's worthy of sharing with the consumer. I'm an attorney and it helps me get more business for sure. However, my beef is with people taking designations as "Senior Loan officer" and they've only been in the business 2 years. Or....Sales manager and they're not managing anyone. Good post.

Jeff - consumers have no clue about our designations, so we have to educate them about the value that they bring from the additional education (and in some cases production) needed to acquire them. Some may not even care.

Sadly having a particular designation does not always guarantee that the person is ethical and will do the best job. Many are and do, but there are unscrupulous folks outside our industry too - PhDs, JDs, MDs and more.

Jeff

Good Article, I just have never had the time or desire to have the letters. Maybe I can be a JBBRwhich would really carry some status. Jeff Belonger Blog Reader. I know I learn a lot from your blogs.

I had to re-read this post because I thought I was going crazy. You did post this previously. Thought I was 'seeing the future' or something. Still enjoyed it, even the second time.

OCT

I with the camp that the customers don't have clue what all those different letters mean. Gaining education to help our client is always a good thing.

Thank you for the great read.

NOV

Designations, schmignations. It's all the same. If you are dedicated, trustworthy, respectful and knowledgeable, it will all work for you. The main thing is to keep your eye on the client's best interest, know what you know, and know what you don't know....and find the people who do. Make sure all the details get taken care of, and you and the client will all come through this in the best possible of places...a successful closing.

NOV

Thanks for all your hard work keeping us updated on FHA loans.

DEC

Jeff, It's funny you should write about this. I remember when I first got into the business and learned about these designations from another lender. He didn't know much more than I did, but certainly was proud of those letters. Needless to say, 18 years later, he's no longer in the business because of his reputation for screwing up loans. I still don't have a designation behind my name, but I'm still here closing loans.

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