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Service With An Old Smile

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

While in downtown Washington DC, inspecting a 100 year old row house (we would call them townhouses!), I noticed something interesting between the house we were inspecting and the one next door.

Both houses had upgraded electrical service conductors.  I took a minute to explain this to my client.  Somewhere I even saw an action shot of my explanation!  Um, an excellent photo!  OK, maybe not that excellent, but I digress.

The house on the right had a conductor that was so old the insulation had completely disintegrated with time.  Guessing, I would date it to the 50's.

My client's house had a newer conductor, which I dated to the late 70's or early 80's.

The meter boxes are quite different in age as well.

But each replaced a service that was previously there. 

Interestingly, the older service on the right was probably the first to upgrade to "modern" stuff, way out of date by our standards today.

The service line into that house looks to be 125amps and may even connect to an old fuse box.  Even if it connects to a circuit breaker box the system is still very old - but state of the art at that time!

A service amperage of only 125amps is very minimal service for modern usage, even with gas appliances in the house.

My client's house had been upgraded more recently, to 150amps of service and a circuit breaker box.  Again, this upgrade was state of the art at that time.  But this house had been purchased and completely remodeled in recent months.  And the electrical in the house was supposedly done with a permit, although I saw no evidence of a final city inspection.

Even 150amps is minimal service in my opinion.  I wonder why the contractor did not recommend upgrading the service, and the panel box, to a more modern, state of the art at this time, 200amp system?  I suggested on the report that this service was minimal, again given modern usage.

Overall my biggest concerns with this house were electrical.  For instance, the lighting "main" breaker, 100amps by itself, turned the furnace on and off.  And not all the lights!  Did a city inspector look at this?  Or approve it?  Ummmm...  There were other such things as this, which, I noticed, my client's Realtor, Pat Kennedy, called "funky!"  That's not a bad word!

My recommendation:  when houses are remodeled, look to see if an inspection permit was pulled and if it had a final approval by the local jurisdictional authority.  Typically that approval appears as an orange sticker, usually left on the inside of the door of the panel box.  If you do not see one, you may want to have your own electrician have a look prior to making a final decision on the house.

 

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments(50)

Mike Frazier
Carousel Realty of Dyer County - Dyersburg, TN
Northwest Tennessee Realtor

I believe I could live with the fuses verses the underrated service if I had to.

Oct 20, 2010 03:28 AM
Tammie White, Broker
Franklin Homes Realty LLC - Franklin, TN
Franklin TN Homes for Sale

They probably didn't upgrade the electrical because of the expense.

Oct 20, 2010 03:39 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Patricia - I am glad you can use it!

Mike - but the fuse box was certainly underrated too!

Tammie - who knows why, but I would have wanted it done if it was my house.

Oct 20, 2010 03:49 AM
Danell Estrada
Highlands Ranch Appraisals, LLC - Highlands Ranch, CO

jpgIf this is not done right and not looked at. The appraisal could come back with a condition to have it inspected and a permit might be required from the lender. This one thing could hold up the closing.

NOT GOOD!!!

Althought for a 100 year home this could also be common, all depends on the Market.

Oct 20, 2010 03:54 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Might be Danell - I don't know how it all works in the city. 

Oct 20, 2010 04:01 AM
Bill Gillhespy
16 Sunview Blvd - Fort Myers Beach, FL
Fort Myers Beach Realtor, Fort Myers Beach Agent - Homes & Condos

Hi Jay,  Great advice !  Electrical is one of those things which so many buyers are not comfortable with and wouldn't notice a defect or shortcoming if it jumped out at them ! 

Oct 20, 2010 05:44 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Well, with that you don't want to fool around Bill.  That is why inspectors so often recommend that electricians look at particular things.

Oct 20, 2010 06:50 AM
Debbie Gartner
The Flooring Girl - White Plains, NY
The Flooring Girl & Blog Stylist -Dynamo Marketers

Congrats on working w/ Patricia and the feature.  Well deserved.  Gotta run to my next appt.

Oct 20, 2010 07:11 AM
Lynne Ruffin
Lynne RUFFIN - Norfolk, VA
Web Styles

Thanks for the great advice.  We definitely want our clients to be safe.

Oct 20, 2010 08:05 AM
Team Honeycutt
Allen Tate - Concord, NC

Pulling permits has been sticky business in our market lately.  There have been a  lot of do it youselfers who have had to tear out walls the get work permitted.

Oct 20, 2010 09:14 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thanks Debbie.  We had some fun!  You should drive, it's much easier, though probably more stressful.

Lynne - safety is probably the number one goal of a home inspection!

Allen - it happens!  That's why it is best to do it right the first time.  Flippers don't always want to do that!

Oct 20, 2010 09:39 AM
Judith Knutson
REMAX River Cities. Inc - Davenport, IA

Great article! It's one of the first things I check.

Oct 20, 2010 11:40 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Good for you Judith!  Keep it up!

Oct 20, 2010 11:43 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

You consider 150 amps minimal?  What kind of stuff are you guys running in Virginia?

As part of an electrical inspections class that I took, one of our homework assignments was to do a load calculation on our own houses.  My only major 240 volt appliance is my air conditioner, so my final number was 50.9 amps.  100 amps is totally overkill for my own house. 

Oct 20, 2010 02:43 PM
Dale Ganfield
Leland, NC

Hi Jay, thanks for sharing the story and the advice.  

Oct 20, 2010 03:04 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

I do Reuben!  Don't you have more electrical stuff now then you did ten years ago?  New houses regularly now are being built around here with two 200amp boxes.  They are each only half full, but anticipating future needs.

Dale - I'm not sure how much advice I could give to you, but I am glad you liked the story.  Pat Kennedy got a photo of me explaining this blog to my buyer!

Oct 20, 2010 09:02 PM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

I do have more electrical stuff today than I did 10 years ago, but most of that stuff runs on batteries; it don't think it makes a dent in my electric service needs.

TWO 200 AMP BOXES?  Wow.  I've seen that done on a handful of houses here in Minnesota, and I've seen a handful of 600 amp services for single family homes, but they were all homes that were in the 10,000 sf range.

Oct 20, 2010 11:58 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Every now and then a see two 150's, but for the most part two 200's...

Oct 21, 2010 01:06 AM
Barbara Hensley
RE/MAX Properties - Rockwall, TX
Homes for Sale in Rockwall County, Texas

Exellent post!  I do not sell many homes in that age range, but I do from time to time.  This is an excellent reminder to not get caught up in all the updating and forget this important issue.

Thanks!

Oct 21, 2010 04:05 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thanks Barbara.  Any older home, even remodeled, has many issues that cannot be forgotten!

Oct 21, 2010 05:17 AM