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Can a Sales Price Be Countered ABOVE List Price?

By
Real Estate Agent with Long and Foster Real Estate VA License # 0225089470

Can a Sales Price Be Countered ABOVE List Price?

Buyers in the Northern Virginia marketplace don't have it easy lately.  There is not enough inventory in most price ranges to meet demand.  So when they find a home they like, they need to move on it FAST! And they need to be reasonable when negotiating, particularly when it comes to closing cost help.

Closing cost assistance in such a market is not a foregone conclusion.  If an offer of closing cost assistance has not expressly been made in the MLS, and the property is priced at or below current comparable sales, it is best to assume that the list price is the net sales price that sellers are expecting.  If you want closing cost assistance, feel free to ask for it and offer list price.  However, don't be surprised if a well priced property has sellers that turn around and increase the sales price by the amount of money you, the buyer, have requested in closing cost help.

Here's a real life example:

I have sellers who have a home priced just slightly below the current market value in the neighborhood at $299,000.  The home is in great condition, but could likely sell for as much as $10,000 more.  They simply wanted more visibility for their listing since traffic above the $300,000 price point in townhouses is slower than they'd like.  

Buyers saw it and offered $297,500 and asked for $5,000 in closing cost help.  That's $6,500 off the listing as advertised.  Why?  There was no closing cost assistance offered in the MLS.  An astute buyer would realize that $299,000 was the seller's starting point for negotiations.

Imagine the buyers surprise when the counter came higher than list price, but closing cost was wrapped in?  They couldn't believe it.  They expected $299,000 with their closing costs and that was it.  Their response to an offer than NETTED the sellers $299K, but increased the sales price was outrage.  "You can't go above list price!  Especially not when there are other offers."

The buyers in that example are going to learn the hard way that, yes, when a buyer needs closing cost assistance on a well priced property and there has been no public offer of closing cost assistance made,the sales price CAN be countered above list price.  Yes a property will still have to appraise for whatever the sales price is, but if comps justify the increase to cover closing costs, buyers should be a bit more humble and realize they are getting a good deal.

   

 

Comments(18)

Cindy Jones
Integrity Real Estate Group - Woodbridge, VA
Pentagon, Fort Belvoir & Quantico Real Estate News

I recently had a situation where a deal fell apart over home inspection items.  One of the arguments the seller used against paying for any repairs was they were giving close cost assistance.  They forgot that the buyer had raised their price to cover those costs so in reality the owner wasn't really giving them anything towards closing.  As Homer Simpson would say DOOH.

Sep 26, 2012 08:06 AM
Adrian Willanger
206 909-7536 AdrianWillanger-broker.com - Seattle, WA
Profit from my two decades of experience

Chris, Well written explanation of when and how to ask for closing cost in your offer. In really is a matter of market conditions and of course will the house appraises for a higher price. Thanks for the post. 

Sep 26, 2012 08:23 AM
William Feela
WHISPERING PINES REALTY - North Branch, MN
Realtor, Whispering Pines Realty 651-674-5999 No.

This was the norm 4-5 years ago.  In a hot market, I have seen sellers counter above thier asking price when there were a lot of offers.

Sep 26, 2012 08:58 AM
Chris Ann Cleland
Long and Foster Real Estate - Gainesville, VA
Associate Broker, Bristow, VA

Cindy:  Oops!  Once you get that far into the deal, there is really not much that should make it fall apart.  

Adrian:  Exactly.  And in this case, the house was priced just below current market value, so the counter with closing cost above list was actually AT market.

William:  Here we are seeing multiple offers frequently on well priced homes.

Sep 26, 2012 09:59 AM
Peggy Hughes/pha logistix, inc.
pha logistix inc - San Francisco, CA
SF NYC LA

I love learning new things about real estate here in the Rain. Thanks so much for the great post, Chris Ann.

Sep 26, 2012 10:06 AM
Chris Ann Cleland
Long and Foster Real Estate - Gainesville, VA
Associate Broker, Bristow, VA

Peggy:  Just wish I could get some of the buyers that don't get it to read this post.  

Sep 26, 2012 01:41 PM
Jackie Connelly-Fornuff
Douglas Elliman Real Estate in Babylon NY - Babylon, NY
"Moving at The Speed of YOU!"

Great post Chris Ann. Buyers that read this will get it. We are seeing offers here going at list price or above. The markets are changing everywhere right now.

Sep 26, 2012 08:54 PM
Kathryn Maguire
GreatNorfolkHomes.com (757) 560-0881 - Chesapeake, VA
Serving Chesapeake, Norfolk, VA Beach

Closing costs are stating to come down considerably in my area of Virginia.  The last two homes I sold as the listing agent gave no closing costs at all..and they were homes in the $400,000 range.  Buyers need to be aware of the changing market and that this is not 2008.

Sep 26, 2012 09:18 PM
Chris Hardy
Elevations Real Estate, LLC www.BuyFortCollinsHomes.com - Fort Collins, CO
Northern Colorado Real Estate

Chris Ann-  This is such a good example of what the Seller can do when an offer doesn't meet the minimum expectations of the Seller.  It is too bad the Buyers didn't have a broker that could have better prepared them for the Seller's response.  Great post!

Sep 27, 2012 12:41 AM
Chris Ann Cleland
Long and Foster Real Estate - Gainesville, VA
Associate Broker, Bristow, VA

Jackie:  I always tell my buyers that a list price is a suggestion.  It is not carved in stone.  There is a whole lot more to an offer than price....like closing cost assistance, how quickly someone can close, etc.  A seller can get a "full price offer" and still reject it.  

Kathryn:  Same here.  On average, buyers are getting 1.5% to 2% in closing help.  But that's average.  On many deals, sellers simply can't afford to help the buyers out.  Homes were purchased a few years ago and the sellers are having to bring money to the mortgage company just to sell.  

Chris:  And the above example boiled down to the sales price being raised $5K to cover the cost of the closing assistance needed.   With today's mortgage rates, that's less than $30/month in the mortgage payment.  

Sep 27, 2012 12:56 AM
Elizabeth Weintraub Sacramento Broker
Elizabeth Anne Weintraub, Broker - Sacramento, CA
Put 40 years of experience to work for you

Those buyers need to wake up and smell the coffee. Or not. Maybe they are not buyers. At this rate, I can see that.

Sometimes, I get the ones who say in lieu of repairs -- which nobody offered to make or pay for, btw -- they ask instead for a closing cost credit. Then they detail all the repairs in such manner that they think I will say: Oh my gosh, not a health and safety issue, oh, no, no, no, tell me it isn't true, LOL. The 3 dumbest words strung together are:

  1. health
  2. safety
  3. issue.
Sep 27, 2012 01:28 AM
Chris Ann Cleland
Long and Foster Real Estate - Gainesville, VA
Associate Broker, Bristow, VA

Elizabeth:  Our contracts changed in January to allow that ALL homes are sold as is.  Those three words mean nothing to get repairs anymore, which is great for sellers.  Buyers don't have the leverage they used to.

Sep 27, 2012 01:42 AM
Margaret Rome Baltimore 410-530-2400
HomeRome Realty 410-530-2400 - Pikesville, MD
Sell Your Home With Margaret Rome
You did a nice job of asking and answering. Margaret
Sep 27, 2012 03:36 AM
Chris Ann Cleland
Long and Foster Real Estate - Gainesville, VA
Associate Broker, Bristow, VA

Margaret:  While the answer is assumed to be no, I think all buyers need to be warned how the world of real estate works, particularly in a seller's market.

Sep 27, 2012 07:09 AM
Lloyd Binen
Certified Realty Services - Saratoga, CA
Silicon Valley Realtor since 1976; 408-373-4411

Chris Ann, so the buyer was outraged by your seller's over list price counter offer, but didn't blink an eye when they asked your seller to pay the buyer's closing costs.  Kinda funny and kinda typical.  Some principals in a real estate transaction are blind to the other person's perspective, and that's one of our jobs, as agents.  I think their agent needs to help the buyer see the whole picture--both perspectives.

Sep 28, 2012 02:37 AM
Harrison K. Long
HomeSmart, Evergreen Realty - Irvine, CA
REALTOR , GRI, Broker associate, Attorney

Chris Ann ... This is valuable information for buyers not aware of contract negotiation strategy - that offering higher than list price can be a good idea - especially during these times of more buyers and competing marketing offers.

We discuss with our clients and prospects here at Irvine CA real estate so that they understand that there are lots more buyers these days than sellers.

Sep 28, 2012 02:39 AM
Carla Muss-Jacobs, RETIRED
RETIRED / State License is Inactive - Portland, OR

This reminds me of my savvy clients who infomed me they would not be letting the sellers "dictate" what they will pay for the house.  The well-priced property, they low balled, was pulled off the market and turned into a rental.  Yes, they were right -- the sellers weren't going to dictate how much the buyer would be paying, they just weren't going to sell the property that's all.  Then the buyer kicks themselves for the great deal they lost.  Happens all the time.

Sep 29, 2012 05:30 AM
Chris Ann Cleland
Long and Foster Real Estate - Gainesville, VA
Associate Broker, Bristow, VA

Lloyd:  Yeah.  The Buyer's Agent was operating as if closing costs were assumed.  Just because someone can't afford them on their own doesn't mean they are assumed to come with the property as list price.  

Harrison:  The most successful buyers in a seller's market understand that the offer they are making is NET.  Sales price minus closing costs.

Carla:  No contract negotiation is one-sided and most buyers and sellers get that.  It's hard when bueyrs think the world owes them whatever they want.  Or that they have some massive power because they wrote a crappy offer.

Sep 30, 2012 01:12 AM