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Anti-Zillow Gene

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408

Announcement of Zillow selling Active Rain was quite enthusiastically met by AR community… but was it for all the wrong reasons?

It might very well be. So many commenters were hyped not because it was great for AR, which we do not know yet, but because they strongly dislike Zillow and Trulia.

So, yes, it was a celebration of separation with Zillow. It was like a divorce, where one party did not know they even were in the relationship. I don’t think Zillow would care, but should we?

Why are we hostile towards Zillow and Trulia?

Imagine the time of wonderful carriages taking you from point A to point B. And then out of nowhere came that ugly noisy automobile.

And the proud carriage owners laughed at that ugly thing, they were so unreliable…

But this ugly thing was faster, and it won, and there were no more carriages…

You know what I mean.

If there is something out there that agents hate with passion, and general public likes more and more, what do you think will happen?

If people like cars…they stay.

The most interesting thing is that hate of Zillow is on some instinctive level, as if we have anti-Zillow gene. Why agents hate/dislike/despise Zillow?

  1. There valuation is not always on the money? But the valuations we use, which come with our MLS are based on similar formulas and I doubt they are any better.
  2.  Zillow charges agents for leads. As if Realtor.com doesn’t. Do you remember Realtors.com Showcase Listing, where you had to pay $110 or $115 (I do not remember) for the privilege to have your name on your listings?

And the good thing is that you do not need to buy them. If you do not like it, do not buy. After all, you do not have to.

I had an interesting conversation with the terrific AR blogger, who is, let’s say, not a big fan of Zillow. I asked him whether he used Zillow, and he said “no”.

Folks, I use Zillow all the time. When we surf the foreclosure calendar, I need the tool like Zestimate to get the idea of prices and I need some data which is there in one place. I need it fast, so no CMA for me. And Zillow works for us perfectly.

My clients/investors trust Zillow more than me:) At least if my numbers are different from Zillow number, they get concerned and I have the explaining to do. Now I have a habit to check Zillow and know what it shows, so that I can present them my case and do all the explaining and not caught napping.

I recently listed a condo we bought for the investor, and it was when Listhub stopped feeding the listing data to Zillow. He called me and said that he could not see the listing. I assured him that it was listed and sent him the copy from our MLS.

He called me and said that he couldn’t care less about MLS. For him, if he could not see it on Zillow, it was not for sale. So, folks, you may hate it as much as you want, but my listings would go on Zillow religiously now.

I hear too often that when Zillow leaves, nobody would regret. I sure would. What if the minute you get rid of Zillow, Realtor.com start charging you more, and more, and more?

I think expectations of Zillow’s demise might be a bit premature.

I believe cars would stay…

Debbie Gartner
The Flooring Girl - White Plains, NY
The Flooring Girl & Blog Stylist -Dynamo Marketers

Great analogy. Jon and I've often thought the same thing.  Regardless of whether you love/hate Z, they are hear to stay.  The question is how people co-exist with it and adapt.  I know it's easy for me to say as I'm an outsider.

Personally, I find Z useful.  Often, it shows me picts of the houses I am going to and that helps me find the house and know style of home.  Having the rough value there is sometimes helpful, too. I don't need to know exact value, but it helps to know if this is a 500,000 or million or $1.5 million dollar home (or more).

Jun 23, 2015 08:20 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Debbie Gartner - If Zillow dies, someone else would fill the gap. And funny, but we do not have such feelings towards Realtor.com. I would also credit Zillow/Trulia for pushing Realtor.com to become more competitive.

I do not understand why so many agents are not using Zillow. You do, I do, many others do. But so many don't.

We thought with Internet for Real Estate. We, somehow, have an aversion to progress.

And it is not a good thing

Jun 24, 2015 12:08 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Ted Baker - We will see. And the first phase may be purely technical. If the pages star load very slow, that would be a problem. It was on AR yesterday. Hope it was a glitch, and not the inadequate system capacity, which we suffered through before Market Leader.

 

Jun 24, 2015 12:12 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Shuchi Agrawal - for some reason when we compare Zillow to agents, we only imply that these are good agents. And it is so often not the case.

So, while Zillow might lose to a great agent, it is rather competitive against average agents.

 

Jun 24, 2015 12:15 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Karen Winters - this is a very wise statement. Knowing that people check Zillow and trust it, it would only be prudent to check Zillow before talking to the customer. Then you know what they saw and what they believe, and then you can substantiate your opinion.

Not knowing what our customers know may hurt.

Jun 24, 2015 12:17 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Sharon Parisi - thank you. Yes, they try to sell, but it is up to us whether to buy or not. And if agents buy, it means that there is the value. Saying that everybody tried and left is not true. I sometimes surprised to see famous AR bloggers as Zillow premier blogger.

I have my two sites with Zillow. $10 a month and pretty decent trafic of them. Good job, guys.

Jun 24, 2015 12:20 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Doyle Lee Austin Davison Iv - I always say that we come here for very different reasons. And this is the beauty of it.

Jun 24, 2015 12:21 AM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

My comment about the change was welcoming the management team/owners back to ActiveRain.

I don't give a fig about Zillow since, as a buyers broker, they care less about me.

Jun 24, 2015 12:38 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Lenn Harley - I think we have the owners, and then ML and then no ownership, as Trulia and Zillow did not know/want to deal with it. AR was too small and insignificant for them.

There are so many directions it could be steered towards, that predicting it is as difficult as winnig in Powerball.

Funny, tis is my second comment, because the first one disappeared... Not tying it to the changes, but yet, interesting.

Jun 24, 2015 02:07 AM
Jon Kolsky
Kolsky Realty & Management - Long Beach, CA
Licensed California Real Estate Broker

Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL ~ we've discussed this so you know where I stand. But with that said, you as well as a small few see it differently. The one thing that should stand-up and be clear "a VAST majority of real estate professionals do not care for T & Z... And in the real estate business it is hard to get a vast majority to see it the same way on any topic! 

So you see my friend, there is a lot more here then meets the eye. You might think getting eye balls to a website is important, (and in most cases it is) but when the site can't be trusted and or "if" the eyeballs are not relevant, then the site $ucks!

Trust is very important in any business, and the vast majority that can't stand Z & T simply don't trust them and or their leadership. Too many brokers/agents have been burned by T & Z and that kind of history can't be overlooked. 

Jun 30, 2015 08:31 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jon Kolsky - I dare to disagree, and I believe the flaw in this "majority" logic is that this majority are agents and brokers, not the public.

i tend to think that public likes it as a tool, that gives them more than any other tool. The public, which does not care much about real estate professionals. ANd it is the tool they are widely using, hence the strength of Zillow and Trulia.

So, when we have a clash between interests of the public and the small (relatively) group of professionals, public wins.

If my clients demand that they are on Zillow, they willbe on Zillow, whether it is me, who puts them there, or someone else, less burdened with some corproate principals.

Jon, I also recently ventured into putting rental properties on Zillow, and what was sitting without any interest on MLS moved immediately. I was surprised byt the number of contacts that I had.

I am glad it works, and I am trying to increase my rental listings because of hope that Zillow would keep it this way.

So, yes, I know that majority of agents and brokers feel that Zillow is their personal enemy. They threaten our livelihood.

But general public probably has more reasons to like Zillow, than to hate it. Actually, they probably have no reason to hate Zillow and Trulia.

Also, interestingly, we, agents, now use it as a tool to talk to Sellers, when they have wrong ideas of values of their properties. If Zillow is with you, you have the strongest point. Here is what Zillow says, and every buyer would look at Zillow.

Thank you

Jul 02, 2015 08:50 AM
Jon Kolsky
Kolsky Realty & Management - Long Beach, CA
Licensed California Real Estate Broker

Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL ~ I hope it is ok that you won't change my mind and I am not trying to change your mind. And I contend it is not only agents and brokers that can't stand Zillow but there's a huge portion of the public can't stand Zillow either. I can direct you to countless public complaint against zillow. There are countless homeowners that continually complain about the inaccurate zestimates placed on their homes (just let me know if you would like to see them) So you see, there are many reasons agents and brokers hate Zillow just as there are many reasons the public hates them, too! 

Jul 02, 2015 09:26 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jon Kolsky - "countless homeowners that continually complain about the inaccurate zestimates placed on their homes". I am a bit surprised. It is a website, they do not like it, they leave it. Why are they complaining? If they do not like the Zestimate, they have the option of ordering a full-scale appraisal. I believe all those countless then would be complaining on Appraisal, but it is unlikely, as they need to pay for the appraisal, and Zestimate is free.

 

Jul 07, 2015 07:09 AM
Jon Kolsky
Kolsky Realty & Management - Long Beach, CA
Licensed California Real Estate Broker

Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL ~ "if they don't like the Zestimate, they have the option of ordering a full-scale appraisal" Wow, talk about missing the boat my friend! FYI: when said buyer wants to buy a home and views a Zestimate that is way lower then the asking price, said buyer has a real hard time writing an offer for the asking price! 

What I see here is a lot of invalidation by you! First you are trying to invalidate a majority of real estate professionals that hate Z, and now you are invalidating home owners that legitimately hate Z, too! 

Look, you say "Z is a great tool to use! And I say that's shortsightedness at its best! Z is not in business to be a tool for RE agents. The way Z makes money is by selling lead generation advertisement to agents. And why most agents hate Z and don't sign up for a second time is probably the same reason you don't buy anything from Z (it's a waste of time and money)

 

Jul 07, 2015 07:55 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jon Kolsky - Just Googled and here is the quote "Zillow snared 16.53 percent of real estate traffic, followed by Trulia (8.66 percent) and realtor.com (7.26 percent)." This is their Web market share in February, 2015.

Zillow is the most visited site of all real estate sites (check the chart in the Inman's article linked above). Zillow and Trulia combined capture 26% of all real estate related web traffic.

Obviously, these are all haters :)

Statement about agents hating Zillow do not impress me. I keep seeing the best agents on Zillow all the time. Here is a link to Sacrament agents, You see Elizabeth Weintraub Sacramento Real Estate Agent, Top 1% of Lyon Agents, and she is one of the very best. I have seen others. Obviously Elizabeth gets results, she would not spend a dime if it does not work.

While you are trying to reason why hate Zillow, I do not have that problem. I believe it is fighting the progress, I personally use them, and not using them in my book is crazy, as it saves me tons of time and is surprisingly accurate. And this is me, who can do a CMA. But so far it is as good as my CMA, but it is so much faster.

As for the tool, Apple did not create their line of machines to be used as a tool. They probably did it to make crapload of money. And I do not care, I use it the way it suits me, and in this sense it is a tool.

I do not buy this corporate that as real estate professionals we have to hate them for this or for that. I don't. I, probably, like them.

Kill me for that :)

 

Jul 07, 2015 08:28 AM
Jon Kolsky
Kolsky Realty & Management - Long Beach, CA
Licensed California Real Estate Broker

Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL ~ I have no problem with your outlook... You have the right to see it as you do! And by the way: I don't want to change the way you feel, all I want to do is tell it from a different perspective. 

As far as the numbers go, I can show you many articles which offer a more realistic traffic pole. Z does a great job at distorting there traffic numbers by counting one person 4 times (just let me know if you want to see the articles) And by the way, most of Z's traffic are college kids looking to rent (and or) homeowners complaining about a low value placed on their home.

As far as agents like Elizbeth finding success "thank god there are a handful" But rest assure most agents are on the other end of the stick. There are only a few markets out of the bunch where Z offers a good ROI. Hence, that's why most agents curse them and never sign up a second time around.

As far as hating them! TRUST ME, I would have no problems with them if they deliver what they promise, and I would have no problem with them if they were transparent, but unfortunately, in my experience, they don't and they are not! 

So you see, when it comes to Z we are on different sides of the universe! But TRUST ME when I say "that's fine." I just want it to be clear "there's a reason most hate Z, and it has nothing to do with a Gene... Instead it has to do with REAL experiences.... And just because you and a few others have good experiences, you can bet your last dollar the majority of folks that curse Z have had very different ones.

Jul 09, 2015 09:08 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jon Kolsky - the percentage of unhappy people is pretty equal. Zillow is not getting more than any other. Numbers do not lie, and I do not understand why you would not believe what you see. To  tell you the truth, I can't even understand how you work witout using them, I would have time to do all those CMAs.

Also, tried to tell you that my clients demand that their properties are on Zillow, and they do not mind that they would not be on MLS.

And the best part of it is that I agree with them. I do not subscribe for one reason only: I only deal with condos, and they do not offer only condo leads. If they do, I ma the first one to sign up.

Jul 09, 2015 12:52 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Jon Kolsky - I forgot to mention. I have several websites. One I am working upon, whioch is mine, and I hope my daughter and her talented husband would help me with that, however, it is not the one generating calls. And calls are generated by Zillow site. $10 a month and calls coming... It is www.DaytonaCondoHotel.com

It is to the point, that I set another site, this time not for condo-hotels, but for condos.

Not yet finalized, but again, zillow site gets me majority of calls. And for $10. And I link my blogs there to my main site trying to build the following there.

Without any jokes, without any sarcasm, I would recommend Zillow sites. I believe, for $10 it is a great value.

Jul 10, 2015 12:47 AM
Jon Kolsky
Kolsky Realty & Management - Long Beach, CA
Licensed California Real Estate Broker

Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL ~ I would kindly disagree "it is pretty clear that there are more unhappy people. Don't forget "unhappy people is the heart of this post" As far as numbers don't lie "I agree" But there is no questions numbers can be manipulated... Zillow Overstaing Numbers

As far as clients demanding to be on Z! As I've pointed out, I have clients that insist on NOT being on Z! Because of low Zesitmates and because of inaccurate lisitng data, I have had clients tell me to make sure I don't put their listing on Z. 

Jon, I think we can go back and forth all day long... And I am sorry, I don't see value in a company that offers bad listing data. I don't see value in a company that offers inaccurate home values. I don't see value in a company that sells worthless leads...

But with all that said, maybe Z should turn into a company that sells websites... The $10 a month website sounds like a good deal as long as it provides a back-end system... But for me, until Z changes it ways, I would rathers Z go dark... 

 

Jul 10, 2015 03:09 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Interesting article. However, it is a common problem, not Zillow's. So all numbers are flawed and flawed pretty much in the same proportion.

And I am again at a loss at your statement, that you have owners, who do not want to be on Zillow.

Number 1. If you list a property on MLS, and if this MLS feeds into Zillow, then Zillow shows the value at the listing price. No valuation, not value range, just listing price. So, for an owner, who is so concerned with the low estimate, the best course of action is to have the property listed and reflected on Zillow, as this is how Zillow shows that they trust the price suggested by the agent.

Not doing it, if the info from the listing is not fed to Zillow, may result in that dreaded "low" Zestimate.

Simply do not see the logic here.

It is not that there is no value in Zillow, it is that you refuse to see it. BTW, MLS around the country do see it and more and more negotiate with Zillow, as they get the access to public data, whci they could use on their MLS in exchange of the feed to Zillow.

Jul 10, 2015 04:13 AM