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Why being in a "Bull in a China Shop" no longer works today!

By Darin Osenberg

Mortgage and Lending with Funky Quail Vintage

August 04, 2009 02:45 PM

Okay, today the preverbial "Straw that broke the camels back" hit me...so here is why, and my advice to the "Ruling Class" out there! Folks- Forcing things, threatening, having your Manager call, or just plain being a Bull in a China Shop no longer works today! All it does it create more problems, animosity, and stress! It gets WORSE when this is passed on to the customer!

I have some absolutely CLASSIC qoutes coming in here...but will try NOT to be VERBOSE!

( call or email Jason Sardi for a definition of verbose LOL )

I got this comment today from a Realtor:

"I, too, have closed dozens of USDA loans with different loan
officers and have never had a hold up like this."

Now I ask you, does she read the paper, watch the news, follow ANYTHING on Active Rain, let alone follow her own industry?

6/2/09 I did a blog on the new HERA law & rules. - 14 comments

Why are people worried now? Because it has now taken affect! Do you clean your teeth? Or, wait for the Cavities to hit?

5/15/09 I did a blog on the new 4506T issues and the future problems that will result! - 6 comments

This is a form that is being executed on nearly every loan. Why are you surprised that it is causing delays? Everyone has known about it!

5/1/09 I did a blog on WHAT A 4506T tax transcript request form ACTUALLY IS! 11 comments

I got asked by a Realtor that has read my blog, what this form is. I was flabbergasted, but politely answered again. So I ask you, do you really want education from us lenders or not? THIS IS WHY A LENDER PARTNER is VERY IMPORTANT!

On 12/9/08 I did one of my very first blogs, albeit not very good..on relationship building! - 5 comments

I have gotten MUCH better at blogging since, but the message remains the same...do you wonder why there are arguements between us?

*******************************

Wake UP people!!!! It doesn't matter if you have sold Realestate for 30 years or 3! What was okay then, is NOT OKAY NOW! We as lenders, have LESS control, and walk a very thin line with our funding sources! What will you do with your buyers when there are NO lenders left?

Today- Martha Brown has a featured blog on what went wrong on one of her blogs! In her case, it was "THREAD DIRECTION". Not really her fault...but look at how it turned!

Personally, I dont think ANYTHING went wrong, it is just indicitive of the differences still remaining between Lenders and Realtors! Sadly, it is also like the RACE CARD and it is pissing me off!

Miriam Bernstein wrote a blog on 4/4/09. JUST READ for a moment the comments left, and the direction given in the blog and judge for yourself! Was this a positive reflection on Lenders? 254 comments says this is a HOT TOPIC! Wouldn't you agree?

Jeff Belonger did a BLOG and was pretty clear in the points that he made that Realtors should sell homes, and lenders should lend money! He was less blunt, but you get the point?

Here's a good one too from Ken Cook!

Janet Guilbault even has a NEW blog today on this very subject, and it is my guess it will get featured! She has also done OTHER blogs where Realtors commented and she was attacked, maligned, and basically told she was an Ogre! Just read the comments on any of these:

Blog 1 Blog 2 Blog 3 Blog 4

#2 especially is good! and, she did get featured!

I got this comment from a Realtor the other day:

After giving the LISTING AGENT daily status updates on appraisal, etc..etc..etc..and I have 11 emails from her telling me that I am the ONLY Lender that has communicated with her like this EVER in her career..and this is what I got when we put off a closing from 4pm Friday to 2pm Monday. Before you get your UNDERWEAR in a bunch, please note that the property is in a TRUST and the seller is in a Nursing home. Her daughter is NOT on the contract and has no right to any information regarding the closing! Lastly, it was put off due to the 4506T getting rejected by the IRS 3 times!

This was the subject line on the email: "Why the hell didn't you e-mail me at 9:30AM?"

This was the body of the email: "Darin: You are in hot water and making me look bad. My Seller's daughter is PISSED OFF. I want you to call her now and explain this so I am not on the hot seat. ........ The Seller is an elderly woman who is a nervous reck about this and they are angry at me!! Now I have to take everything back that I said about you before and you shouldn't pressure people to set up closings 2 weeks in advance and then not follow through!!!

#1. The OTP has a scheduled "on or before date of closing", WE DON'T SCHEDULE closings! Realtors do!

#2. Why should I talk to someone about loan specifics who isn't involved in the deal or has a right to know? Fact is, I won't! But, in this case, I listened to the daughter tell me, and I qoute, "YOU ARE KILLING MY MOM"- I dont know what to say about this..

#3. VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE: I told them this was a problem 3 days before hand...this did NOT come up at the last minute. However, as you can see, she was surprised! HUH??

Loan closed, customer was THRILLED with our service...(conventional loan closing in 27 days with an HVCC appraisal), and she has already referred me another customer!

*************************************************************

Looks like I failed at being NOT VERBOSE! SORRY!

ALL IN ALL, we as lenders will no longer stand for mis-treatment, disrespect, threats,and the overall abuse we have taken in the past! Calling my boss will not help! Calling the USDA or the IRS will not help! Threatening me to "never send me any business again" will not help! In almost every case, I could have thrown the REALTOR under the bus, but I chose the high road instead!

You buy & sell the house, and I will handle the financing!

REALTORS- You truly need to decide if you want/need education or not!!! Being positive, objective, willing to accept change, does NOT MEAN you have to accept incompetence, and that is where I could not agree with you more!

****PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE****

Let's work as a TEAM out there...it is hard enough. I certainly don't want to be a VAMPIRE or LYCAN!! (werewolf)- that is a BLOOD SUCKER or Cybil! :) - personality changer! LOL

You have every right to fire me if you dont agree! I reserve the right to fire you for treating me poorly and unprofessionally.

Happy Selling!

Thanks! Buckster R Buckster

-Darin-

As always, I welcome your concerns,comments,issues and suggestions! Darin@Osmwi.com

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Feel free to check out a few of my more popular blogs by clicking on the links below!

Return of Bloggie Latest USDA MEMO Susie the Duck Successful HVCC story

For Sale Signs Home Improvement Shows Hijacking is a NO NO! Undue Influence & the HVCC

Mortgages, so easy a Caveman can do them! HERA RULES

Open House Suggestions Open House Suggestions 2 Golf Outings Wall-E USDA Loans

What do I need for Pre-approval? Buying a Fixer Upper What is a pre approval?

What is a search & hold and why dont we use them?

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Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Jenny Durling- I appreciate your commenting, but here lies part of the problem. Immediately you have made it clear that I am attacking or, yelling at ALL realtors! That is the problem right there. Even by making a statement like that, you are assuming that is what I am doing. It is called perception. (no insult intended in any way btw). The old saying, "perception is reality", is part of the reason for the blog. I did not shy away from giving examples to where I am coming from, because REALTORS have consistently attacked us LENDERS over the years. However, I NEVER said ALL realtors, and the ones that do take offense, normally are the ones that would have treated me like in the blog! MY GUESS is that YOU are NOT that type! The main focus of the blog truly is/was about treating people with empathy, understanding, compassion, and professionalism! If you dont want to learn why, then you have no basis for an arguement. If you dont want to be educated, then you need to consider a different profession. Again, not target at YOU, just in general! This could also hold true for LENDERS, not JUST realtors!

I could put links to at least 13 seperate blogs that were VERY attacking & condesending in nature towards Lenders. I did not, and I would not. However, because the # of Realtors in the RAIN overwhelmingly outnumber the # of lenders, it only makes sense that there is a higher probability of negative or disparaging comments left! I dont expect everything to be....."Great blog, way to go...rah rah rah....", but attacking my CHARACTER is where the BUCK stops!

Your points are ALL well taken, and I LOVE KW btw! My favorites over the last few years have been REMAX and KW, but we have several GREAT localized RE firms too here in Wisconsin! I completely appreciate your opinion, i will consider & think about it, and thank you for taking your time! - Darin

Aug 05, 2009 05:17 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Jeff- Actually, in this case....:) No need to apologize...You and I both know, that examples are one of the BEST WAYS to learn in any situation! It is kinda like when a new loan offficer gets into the game...the first thing we tell them is BRING ME APPLICATIONS, because THAT is where the learning begins! THREADS on quality blogs are another area that learning is critical! -

Bottom line and truth be told, you are a harsh guy sometimes. However, honesty, even if slightly misplaced, is ALWAYS the best way to go! I would add that the other point I was trying to get across, beside the one I commented on above to Jenny Durling, was that JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING WAS CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE in the past, doesnt mean it ever was acceptable, or will be in the future! In the past, Realtors & Lenders ALIKE had more choices!

Now, that # has diminished by say....80-90%~ We need to be VERY CAREFUL in our treatment of others, as tempers, and patience in times of crisis are always shorter than normal!

Thanks for your comments! - Darin

Aug 05, 2009 05:22 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Aug 05, 2009 05:22 AM

Terkel Sørensen

Real Estate Places - Temecula, CA

Realtor, 951.805.0773 , Bank owned and Short Sales

Hey Darin,

I have to second with Lenn here - I have seen a few rocsk getting turned over lately, I am a Realtor and I try to do my best to give you guys the best treatment, to prep my clients for the worst - and in general, I will make promises along the lines of we'll close in 45 days, if for some reason all the bits fall in place and we are ready sooner, I hope you don't mind - but you will not hear me giving a date 2 weeks out.

You guys have your work cut out for you and when people tell me I should do loans - all I can do is laugh, wait, I do hang up the phone too.

And Colleen, if you are still reading this, please feel free to ping me, I am always looking for someone who is good and particular someone who knows how to do 203's.

Aug 05, 2009 06:07 AM

Kerry Jenkins

Prime Properties - Crestline, CA

There's always going to be issues that pop up. At least it didn't cause closing to be another 2 months like the beheamouth bank I just blogged about...

Aug 05, 2009 06:16 AM

Anonymous

Sarah Poole

Darin - Great post! When you are communicating honestly with everyone direcly involved in the deal exactly what is going on and attempting to set realistic expectations, but people choose to ignore the reality of the situation, it can be frustrating.

In this very disrupted lending environment, it is helpful when professionals you are dealing with (and the clients) understand that the rules and laws we have to work under are a moving target, the property values are a moving target, and we are doing the very best we can to get the deals done. We are not happy about delayed closings either.

It is such a pleasure when folks involved in the transaction are understanding/realistic about the potential delays and outcomes in these times. I closed a deal a couple of months ago that took a few weeks longer than the contract deadline (it was FHA 203K), but the seller and buyer were understanding and appreciative of everybody's efforts to get the deal closed as quickly as possible, albeit later than we would have wished. That is so much better than getting hounded or harassed. I am still very grateful for their trust and empathy with the situation. (And their willingness/ability to listen to and absorb what I was communicating to them throughout the process.)

Aug 05, 2009 06:54 AM

#47

Joetta Fort

The DiGiorgio Group - Arvada, CO

Independent Broker, Homes Denver to Boulder

I do like education, but it's very hard to keep up. So my lenders have my permission to repeat themselves, I won't be offended. The only complaint I have is when they ask the buyer for some info and don't get it in a timely manner, I want them to call me, because I can usually get the buyer on the stick. But they usually don't, so I send an email at every stage asking if they need anything else from me or the buyer. And almost always - they do.

Aug 05, 2009 07:05 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Terkel- I truly appreciate YOUR thoughts and comments ! Thank you! I had to re -read ya..a couple of times, but now I get it! :) My only comment about YOUR comment is this: The purchase agreement tells me WHAT DAY we are going to close. normally, if I am correct...ON , or before! many Realltors, my father BEING ONE, set dates at ends of month, to help borrowers NOT double up on a rent/house payment! In theory, this is a good idea...in reality, it means that the END OF THE MONTH is over jammed up...Which ALSO creates other problems. That said, when I talk about 2 weeks out, we HAVE TO GET A DATE & TIME on the board at the TITLE CO, as they are just over loaded and have troubles meeting out demands today! that's all ! I appreciate Realtors, and thank you for your comments!~ Purpose intended here was to create the awareness of appreciation! (see, I coined a phrase!) LOL- Thanks..>D

Aug 05, 2009 07:16 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Amy- Glad to see you here again! THANKS! Yes, one day is all...so I was very happy about that..>But, I will say that WELLS FARGO WHOLESALES" closing team kicked ass for me tho! I am proud of them! THey acted like a TEAM! In the end, that is also the moral of the story! - Thanks! Darin **I will check out YOUR blog now btw!

Sarah Poole- I dont think I could have said any of this any better...In fact, I am now deleting my blog, and reblogging what you just said! LOL..... just kidding....however, extremely well said! Thank you for sharing! - D

Aug 05, 2009 07:19 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

JOETTA! I wish I could work with YOU!! That kind of attitude, much like that of another commentor are exactly the kind of winning attitudes that we as professional lenders look for in a team mate! ....That said, I do take it as OUR responsibility to gather those documents, but when I am not getting anywhere,....YOU BET i will involved the Realtor! It actually creates an even tighter bond, and more trust in the relationship...as we are checking our egos at the door! Thank you so much! Darin

Aug 05, 2009 07:22 AM

Gene Riemenschneider

Home Point Real Estate - Brentwood, CA

Turning Houses into Homes

Darin it takes all kinds. I have had some harsh words for lender here, mainly ones with big banks. There are two sides to every story. I tell my buyers things can and will go wrong, do not count on the promised closing date. If we recommend a lender and things go bad we really hear about it. Some lenders communicate better than others.

As a Realtor I need the truth. I would rather tell my client one time it will be 7 more days, than tell them 7 times it will be one more day. I had one lender that knew how to go straight to VM with my phone (I wish I knew how to do that with people.) and never spoke to me. Always apologizing for missing me. I have had loans fall completely apart and rather than the lender tell me, string me along while starting form ground zero with another bank.

A few days ago I had a lender tell me to get the seller to fix such and such and we can close; docs are being sent out, this is a funding condition. Well I get back in and now there is a new list of repairs. Things I had traded off to get the other list of repairs complete now have to be repaired. I am the guy that looks like an ass and am playing games to the listing broker.

I am sure you have more integrity than some of those lenders. I really believe it varies from person to person. I also understand lenders/loan officers get the rug pulled out from under them by the "underwriters."

Most the time I keep it professional and have a good relationship with the bank, I know the kind of stuff you are dealing with, but there is another perspective.

Aug 05, 2009 11:18 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Gene- You know, this is the longest comment I have ever gotten out of you! I AM PROUD TODAY! I either touched a nerve, or motivated you to comment! EITHER WAY...thank you! I COMPLETELY HEAR YOU!

ALL fantastic comments! Yes, we constantly hear from Realtors that communication is the key..! We get that now...the people that dont, wont! ...That said, I also think that EVEN IF at the beginning you lay down expectations, and EVEN IF you communicate GREAT...(which on this particular deal, I think I did), it can still be TURNED from "not understanding"...and that is where the desire to better oneself comes in...The desire to learn, and not only educate, BUT BE EDUCATED! The willingness to accept & embrace change!!

This is what chaps my ass....we get that everyone wants better communication...well, let me communicate this to you..

UNDERWRITERS are constantly thrown under the bus and blamed for things LOAN OFFICERS missed!!!!! YOU know why?? Because they are faceless and easy to blame..! That pisses me off too! believe me....It makes it harder for people like ME! ..>I do have integrity, I am as forthright as LEGALLY possible...and I review my stuff as much as possible...yet I AM not perfect..and I will miss things!

I always have and will appreciate YOUR perspective and thank you for sharing! - Darin

Aug 05, 2009 12:50 PM

Lyn Sims

Schaumburg, IL

Real Estate Broker Retired

I'm not sure what to comment about now after reading all the points. This should have been a few different posts. Your definately grumpy and need a nap. Your feeling abused, everyone is abused, and everyone is dishing out the abuse.

Aug 06, 2009 03:15 AM

Jason Sardi

Auto & Home & Life Insurance throughout North Carolina - Charlotte, NC

Your Agent for Life

Darin - Do you really need a nap? ;)

Interesting transaction you've noted and I dare say probably not as rare these days as we would like. With changes rampant, there comes a lot of frustration. It's almost like part of our job is to be the scapegoat, the proverbial pinnata, but it isn't. I agree with your stance on this 100%. I've dealt with a few folks like this and will not do so anymore. Besides, if we don't work together... the true bottom line (clients) suffer in the end. Without them, there is no us.

Aug 06, 2009 04:03 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Hi Lyn...as always, I appreciate your perspective. In my case, not really grumpy...I just cannot, and will not hold my tongue anymore. I am not a whipping boy, and yes, you are probably right, it could have been several posts. However, I was just talking to Jeff Belonger yesterday about a similar issue, and when you have a topic like this, but fail to explain your entire position...>You spend followup time and comments answering questions, and being lectured that you didnt explain enough. EH GADS...we cannot win either way! :) - Darin

Aug 06, 2009 04:10 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Jason- Thank you for sharing in my view. My struggle is very simple. If you want to understand, you must WANT to be educated! if the two are not going hand in hand, the system WILL fail! I will no longer be the scapegoat UNLESS i do something wrong! Thanks Sardini! - Big D

Aug 06, 2009 04:12 AM

Kathy Opatka

RE/MAX CROSSROADS - Ocean City, MD

Serving Ocean City, MD, & The Delaware Beaches

Darin,

Very interesting to hear from the Lender's point-of-view! I can understand your feelings toward these situations, but please understand mine. I give "You" (ie:a Lender) the general info about the deal and you assure me that you can get it done. We're in close contact for 3 weeks when all-of-a-sudden you call and tell me ..."your company doesn't do THAT KIND of lending"! uugghhh! I live/sell in a resort town and too many times the Buyer wants to use their hometown lender, who has no idea of how to get the loan done!( I love LOYALITY, but not in this case!) For this reason, I always advice... use local lenders and hopefully, one of the 3 that are on my Lender List!

Kathy Opatka

Aug 06, 2009 07:16 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

Hi Kathy! Thanks for sharing! You know, as far as understanding YOUR feelings...noone can be BETTER at it than me! Truly! My father was an INS AGENT for 30 years, then a RE BROKER OWNER in Colorado for 16 years or so...

I have been around sales & quality customer service my whole life...however, it can get tough to hold your tongue at times...

THANK THE LORD that your description of an ugly situation with a LENDER is NOT the norm! Unfortunately if you compared the wonderful descriptions of deals gone GOOD, to the HORROR stories of deals gone BAd..the difference would be staggering!

I dont know for sure, but my guess is that you have been a Realtor for a while. We do need MORE Realtors with your kind of attitude, and even though some people in my peer group here on AR would be mad at me for saying this..I DO AGREE that using out of area lenders is not the best, and poses other challenges..HOWEVER< i have a customer I have done 4 transactions with over the last 9 years, and have NEVER met him in person! I have 4 letters of recommendation from him...so I think in the long run what is important in your TRUST & LENDER PARTNER relationship isnt JUST communication...it is the personal understaning of ones goals and ambitions as well! ONLY TIME and experience can build a solid TRUST foundation..>It takes the "tough" deals and HOW WE DEAL WITH THEM, to determine ones METTLE so to speak!

I live and SELL in a lake area here in Wisconsin..so I can hear TOTALLY what you are saying! THAT is where the SPHERE of influence plays such a critical role!

Please visit again! Thanks !- Darin

Aug 06, 2009 09:29 AM

Larry Bettag

Cherry Creek Mortgage Illinois Residential Mortgage License LMB #0005759 Cherry Creek Mortgage NMLS #: 3001 - Saint Charles, IL

Vice-President of National Production

D Money $$$$$. I have a realtor who is truly my partner. She is top 10 in Illinois. We are awesome partners. She doesn't pretend to know a damn thing about lending (even though she knows a lot) so that she can get them wtih the expert (me). I tell my clients that I don't know a damn thing about being a realtor (I know so much more than most realtors as I'm a licensed real estate attorney) so that I can get my clients in front of the best of the best! Needless to say, I hate know it alls that make me "nicely undo" the damage that they've done so that I can EDUCATE them for THEIR BEST INTERESTS. A REAL PET PEEVE OF MINE!!!

Aug 08, 2009 03:01 AM

Darin Osenberg

Funky Quail Vintage - Nashville, TN

BINGO LARRY! - YOu just described an IDEAL relationship! YOU ARE LUCKY!! Being blunt, and straightforward about what YOU ARE GOOD AT, is probably one of the many reasons YOU are successful!

D

Aug 09, 2009 01:31 PM