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RedSpin simply spun!

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC BK607690

OK, so I guess "60 Minutes and Redfin" is the topic du jour. I've been reading all the Blog fodder today trying to decide whether or not to chime in. Well, why not? It is an important topic and as usual I have an opinion, for whatever it‘s worth....

First, I want to link to the three posts, I have read on AR, that have addressed this "issue". There may be more posts but AR is too big for me to read them all.

Laurie Manny posted "Shame on you Redfin" It is very brief but hits on the Redfin agent (Kelly Engel) talking about how her conscious got to her for making $12,000 for five hours work and also touches down on the statement about Redfin handling the financing for their Buyers. The comments on this post are very good. Kelly even drops by to put in her two cents worth. I like the post but it doesn't really address the "issue" as I see it.

Neal Bloom wrote an article titled "Did Redfin show up or did they conduct the interview from their computer" Now, I like Neal, but did not like his article at all. It was very defensive and resorted to cutting down Redfin which in my opinion is doing the same thing that they are doing and is very negative. Sorry Neal, I'm not with you on this one. Redfin had air time and used it to their advantage. Why not? It's great marketing, and that seems to be their forte. So I can't fault them for that. By the way, talking about commissions is not a violation of the Sherman Anti Trust Act. Sherman is all about collusion and price fixing, a discussion, is neither.

Lenn Harley chimed in with "60 Minutes....Public Puff Piece by Purveyors of Publicity for the Percentage Possessed." Now, that my friends, is what I call a GREAT post title. OK, now we're getting somewhere. First, Lenn mentions the ReMax agent and her pathetic attempt to make us look good. Well, she failed miserably. I don't know if she was handpicked by Redfin or 60 Minutes but certainly managed to do more damage to our profession than anything Redfin said. But most importantly, Lenn wrote this "OUR BUSINESS IS NOT ABOUT THE COMMISSION PERCENTAGE. IT'S ABOUT THE VALUE TO THE CONSUMER OF SUCCESSFUL REAL ESTATE TRANSACTIONS. And she wrote this "these anti-REALTOR pieces will continue to air as long as we continue to ignore that we are paid for WHAT WE KNOW, NOT WHAT WE DO." Lenn, you go girl!!!!

OK, so here's my opinion. Redfin is NOT the problem. Redfin is using the consumer's perception of REALTORS® to their advantage. Redfin is also using REALTORS® defense of their commission to their advantage. They are creating a buzz. Frankly, I think they have a business plan that will fail but I firmly believe they have the right to try. They will fail because they are building a business by discrediting the competition. A successful business must be built on it's own merit.

As REALTORS® we are shooting ourselves in the foot, by trying to justify our commissions, by what we do, instead of what we bring to a transaction. We are harming our business by defending it against these types of attacks.

60 Minutes and Redfin are correct that there are many in our business that are grossly over paid. Not by the amount of money they are making but by the lack of value they are providing. I for one, will not waste my time trying to defend these REALTORS®. I would welcome a cleansing of our industry. If companies like Redfin help to shine a light on what's wrong with our industry then I'm all for it. Redfin is certainly not the solution but hopefully the attention they are getting will help us to reevaluate what it is we do and force us to "clean up our act" and make being a REALTOR® mean something again.

NAR needs to step up to the plate and make becoming a REALTOR® more difficult than writing a check. REALTORS® need to start putting their customers and client's needs first. We need to prove our value not defend our cost. My average commission is about $6,000. My customers are getting a steal. How about yours?

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Comments(76)

Dianne Barody
Century 21 AmeriSouth Realty - Pensacola, FL
Pensacola Florida Real Estate
Great Post Bryant- I  wonder what will happen next?
May 15, 2007 04:26 AM
Anonymous
Nick Davis

Here's a piece written by Blanche Evans on Realty Times:

http://realtytimes.com/rtapages/20070515_sixtybiased.htm

Blanche made a very good assessment of the traditional agent in the 60 minutes piece - Deborah Arends with RE/MAX. This agent did a very poor job of explaining the benefits of a full service agent and to further justify real estate commission.

However, Blanche's assessment of VOW's and broker reciprocity was arrogant and does not benefit the consumer - the seller.

May 15, 2007 04:27 AM
#59
Dick & Sandy Beals
Wilmington Real Estate 4U Wilmington, NC - Wilmington, NC

 Great points, and counter points.....the one thing that has remained constant is it is not what we do, it is what we know.  There will always be competition, and this "new competitor" is just making more people aware.  All I know is people "trust, respect, and feel comfortable" using our services, when and IF that stops happening it is time for me to ride off into the sunset

Dick Beals

May 15, 2007 07:07 AM
Teri Eckholm
Boardman Realty - White Bear Lake, MN
REALTOR Serving Mpls/St Paul North & East Metro

BB--I tried to comment yesterday but had computer issues arrgh!!!

Thank you for providing a thought provoking post on the whole CBS debate! I too had planned to avoid the whole topic as I thought it would just go away. My family had the show on during dinner and we all were very upset as my sons both have been listening to real estate conversations for many years and were aware of the inaccuracies in the story (Mom has never been paid $12,000 for 5 hours of work!--EVER!)

I finally gave in and posted when a past client called in the afternoon. After a brief discussion of the current market in the Twin Cities she made a comment about how it is hard to know what to believe after watching 60 Minutes yesterday. It was an eyeopener for me and wanted to post...not for AR...I did not post to any groups. It was so if my clients have questions, I could point them to my post so they understand the errors in the program.

There are different business models for every type of business. I agree 100% with you that this is not the real issue. Our clients are the most important--The public did not deserve to be misinformed by the media!

May 15, 2007 09:08 AM
Doreen McPherson
Homesmart ~ Scottsdale ~ Tempe - Tempe, AZ
Phoenix Arizona Real Estate ~

BB,  I agree with you and TLW most of the time and this is one of those times. 

So far, I have read both blogs and all comments for Laurie Manny and Broker Bryant. 

I did not watch the program, because I don't normally watch TV and I was out of town anyway. 

I am seeing a lot of defensive reactions to this and I believe that was one of the program's desired outcomes

When I decided to become an REALTOR, I knew about the bad rep, but I had no idea how bad it was, until I started telling people what I was doing.  And, what I saw in RE school kind of made me sick.  Many of the people there made it clear, they were in it only for the money.  Most of them were from another state, here to cash in on the Arizona Bubble.  (they were not afraid to say it to us)(they were too late and I'm hoping they've gone home)  :)   

I could go on but I won't. 

I was, and, I am still hoping to make a difference as a REALTOR.   

Maybe this will be the needed wake up call?  

I think I will go read a couple more posts...

 

May 15, 2007 10:05 AM
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time
Hey everyone, As always I really appreciate your value added comments and opinions. I've been out all day so have kind of neglected this post. Sorry!!! But I do have to work every now and then. It has been very interesting reading all the different posts and comments on this topic. I think we all agree that the show was just way off base. I also believe getting defensive over it is exactly what they want us to do and is playing into their hands. We need to take this show as a dose of reality and strive to be better REALTORS(R). That really is the only way to change the consumer's perception. 
May 15, 2007 11:07 AM
John S.
RealtorRatingz.com - Canandaigua, NY
BB, you and Lenn are the two bloggers on AR that I always seem to agree with; I'd have no hesitation to hire either one of you.  I've thought about what makes the two of you stand out, and besides having lots of experience, being intelligent, not being defensive, and being oh-so-good-looking, you each specialize in only one side of the transaction.  I think there is something to this; how could you be the best at representing sellers if you were also trying to represent buyers?  How could Lenn be the best at representing buyers if she also tried to represent sellers?  "Conflict of interest" may be too strong a term, but I've come to the decision that I will only use buyer or seller specialists in the future.  I think that's where the value of using a realtor really shines through.
May 15, 2007 11:27 AM
Anonymous
Christine

Error: Eight states have "minimum service laws" that require REALTORS® to provide a level of service many Internet discounters can't afford.

This kind of says it all.  We provide a valuable service, it is expensive to produce.

Providing little or no service is cheap.  Let the public make their choice.

May 15, 2007 12:27 PM
#65
Anonymous
Ryan from Cali

I know you love my opinions, so here you go. I think real estate agents are overpaid. There I said it. is it hard work? Yes. Does it take knowledge and experience to do it right? Yes. Should commissions have remained at 6% while home prices doubled and tripled in some areas? Absolutely not.There is just no way to argue that a house that costs $500,000 is twice as much work to sell as one that costs half as much. It simply isn't. Before anyone argues all I have to say is this:

Did real estate agents feel they were being underpaid before house prices doubled or tripled? I never heard any complaints. So, if that amount was fair, then the amount now is twice too much (you can adjust for inflation if you like). The reason agents have been able to keep charging that ridiculous amount of money is they have a monopoly on the market of buying and selling homes.....

BUT, that is all changing now. In the next 10 years the current business model that allows agents this disconnnect from economic principles will fall apart. It has only worked thus far for one simple reason: Housing has historically increased in value fairly accurately with inflation. With the way the mortgage business works these days that will not be the case anymore, therefore a new business model will have to be created for your line of work. I for one can't wait. Sorry. 

 

May 15, 2007 02:16 PM
#66
Daniel Lowery
1st Choice Real Estate - Jefferson City, MO
e-PRO, Broker - Owner
I agree we should be defending the value we add to the real estate transaction, Happy selling
May 15, 2007 04:11 PM
Anonymous
Kelly Engel

Hi Bryant,

Thank you for writing an excellent and thought-provoking blog post! 

I just wanted to say that I totally agree with this post and your follow-up comments. Redfin is not for everyone and I truly believe that the best thing we can do for the consumer is to give them a choice. Agents should spend more time embracing the value of their service (model) and less time being defensive about their commissions. Consumers are not clueless, they will pick the real estate model that best suits their needs. I can't help but laugh as these blogs pile up with silly comments directed towards my company and myself - these responses are more detrimental to the image of a traditional realtor than anything that was portrayed on the show. I would imagine many consumers watching 60 Minutes saw me commenting on my 5 hour transaction and thought "my agent just worked at-least 50 hours for me, she(Kelly Engel) is crazy." And that is just fine.

After the show aired I got a call from an agent in Sacramento who wanted to give me feedback on my comments. I listened to her talk about what an amazing and successful agent she was and how I was a pathetic liar working for a company that would be out of business in 6 months. She told me she makes $1.5 million/year. I then asked her if she called because she felt threatened by our company (why was an agent making $1.5 mil/year calling me?) and she paused into silence for 5 seconds and yelled "you look like a stupid idiot on tv!" I calmly told her that I was going to hang up now because she wasn't being nice and she yelled every 4 letter word into the phone and hung up on me. Hmmm.  

 

Warm Regards and thanks for letting me share,

Kelly Engel

May 15, 2007 07:57 PM
#68
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time

Hi Kelly, I agree 100% that the consumer should have options. I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond. My market's average sells price is right around 200k so I can't relate to making 20k 0r 30k on a transaction. I average about $6,000 and my sellers are every pleased with paying me. But really none of this is about cost it's about value. Different folks have different needs and should be able to pay accordingly. The consumer is smart enough to make their own decisions.

Hi Daniel, Thanks for stopping by.

Hey Ryan, Good to see you. I was starting to wonder where my consumer crew was at:) I truly believe it depends on the market. As I mentioned in my comment to Kelly my average commission is about $6,000. And at that price my sellers are getting a steal. Ryan there are all ready many biz models in my market for the consumer to choose from. Some charge less than me and some charge more. I get business because I get results. It doesn't matter what the consumer agrees to pay if they don't get their property sold. If you have a reputation of getting results then compensation is not a issue.

Christine, Thanks for reading and commenting.

John, Good to see you. Thanks for the compliments! Great way to start my day:) I too respect Lenn quite a bit she is definitely someone I would feel comfortable working with. I feel that she would fight to the death for her buyers:) Working only one side of the transaction has been one of the best things I have done in my business. Sellers love it and I do too. It really avoids any hint of conflict of interest. It makes me a much stronger salesperson. Lenn and I have mentioned to each other that even though we work opposite sides of the transaction either one of us could switch sides and still be just as effective. We both believe in placing our customer/client's needs as our top priority. And you just can't do that working both sides. If ALL Realtors(R) would pick a side it would go a long way towards changing the way our profession is perceived.

May 16, 2007 12:19 AM
Neal Bloom
Brokered by eXp Realty LLC - Weston, FL
Realtor CRS-Weston FL Real Estate

Hey BB,

Fine day we are having,nice dark clouds..maybe even darker than this cloud. :)

Oh..this is the wrong post..I was looking for the nice post not the controversial one..since I make the decisions to comment on posts then I'll just say everything is forgotten and this issue will blow away in the wind soon enough. I'm waiting for the phone to ring instead. :)

May 16, 2007 04:37 AM
Ryan Hukill - Edmond
405home @ ERA Courtyard - Edmond, OK
Realtor, Team Lead
And BB nails it again! Very insightful post and right on the thoughts I had in my head when I wrote my last blog post. We have to raise the bar and show the consumers the value we bring, not the money we charge. Thanks!
May 16, 2007 06:33 AM
John S.
RealtorRatingz.com - Canandaigua, NY

>We both believe in placing our customer/client's needs as our top priority. And you just can't do that working both sides. If ALL Realtors(R) would pick a side it would go a long way towards changing the way our profession is perceived.

BB, this smells like it could be yet another featured post for you, although you would probably bring more wrath upon yourself than usual. :)

John

 

May 16, 2007 01:39 PM
Anonymous
Nick Davis

Hey Kelly,

I got a good chuckle out of your "$12K for 4 hours of work" comment. I was wondering why you gave such a good gig up for a desk job with Redfin? LOL

Anyway, there is room in this market for all business models. Just like all real estate brokerages, Redfin will have to work at making their business model profitable. Venture capital only last so long.

For me, however, I'm glad the 60 minutes piece gave air time to the rebate model. I'll run with it now...

May 17, 2007 06:14 AM
#73
Portland Oregon Real Estate | Alecia Barnes - Broker
Portland, OR
Broker Bryant:  This was an exceptional read, very well thought out with great points. I for one, do NOT think that I am grossly overpaid for what I do. Having left a commissioned position, I feel that the value that I bring is in knowing my business, going the extra mile, and making sure that my clients have received EXCELLENT service. I won't settle for less. And if they put their confidence in me, either will they.
May 21, 2007 09:07 AM
Amber Steiner
Solid Source Realty - Cumming, GA
North Atlanta Real Estate
BB---As I was midway through reading your post I was literally standing feeling the need to clap :-)  Once again a phenomenal read!  I have to agree with your wisdom and insight as usual.  I am just as frustrated as everyone else with the discount models.  However, we are "fueling" the proverbial "fire" that we as real estate professionals fight to extinquish.  IMHO we should be confident enough in our offerings, service levels, and skills that those models shouldn't make us get our "panties in a bunch"... Your view and translation of this topic have been very enlightening and eyeopening.  Thanks!
May 29, 2007 06:53 AM
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time

Amber, Those are some mighty kind words:) I actually do not have a problem with other biz models, whether they charge more or less than me. I've built my business on my reputation and how I conduct my business. We ALL need to concentrate on providing value to our own customer/clients. If we do that, then these alternative business models will have no effect on our businesses. There's room for all and the consumer should have options.

Thanks everyone for reading and commenting. I seem to have neglected this post. Sorry about that.  

 

May 29, 2007 07:42 AM
John Occhi
AZ Veteran Notary Services - Marana, AZ
Mobile Notary Public/Certified Loan Signing Agent

Bryant, I'm a little late to this party, but I have just started researching Redfin and I say bring it on.  Our value is our service, not our business model.

I came across a consumer blog last night that got me a bit ticked off, and after reading this one of yours, I thought it would make you just as mad.  It has over 300 comments ragging about REALTORS - anyway, if you want to check it out you'll find it at Have You Heard What the Public is Saying About REALTORS®?  

Now Have a Blessed Day,

John Occhi, Hemet CA REALTOR®
Mission Grove Realty

AND PROUD TO BE A FULL SERVICE REALTOR®

Sep 09, 2007 04:02 AM